Community Physics Test Table

[Sliderpoint]

Community Physics Test Table

There is always a lot of discussion on physics going on.  What settings should be for different objects.  I thought it would be cool to upload a table that could just be used to setup and test physic settings and get feedback from the community.  See if a general consensus could be gathered from the community.   Obviously all tables play differently.  The goal with this one is to try to recreate physics of the table it’s based on. TBL is obviously new and only a few are out there and probably even fewer people have played one.  So this is really an attempt to get a “best guess” for modern tables or good starting points.   I believe I read that most of the components are based on WMS, so think of that as you go.

So why TBL? (besides it’s awesome!!) It has a lot of different components that are on a lot of machines. Plastic ramps, metal ramp, wire ramps, pop bumpers, upper and lower(sort of) playfields, 3rd flipper of different size, lanes, metal guides, scoop, kicker, diverters, etc, oh my…!

Things on this table that are already setup:
Hold the right flipper when launching the ball to get the ball to divert to the upper playfield.
Shooting the right hole on the upper playfield sends the ball to the lower PF
L/R flippers move the lower PF guides back and forth.
Start button releases the ball on the Lower PF. it will roll down and then it will come out the center scoop.
Launch button(auto launch) is not configured. I left a plunger for more testing options(plus I don’t have a launch button on my cab that works without DOF and b2s, lol).
I tried to group common object types into collections for easier selection and separated things into the layers.

Your job is download and make any changes you want and re-upload it for others to check out (with some description of changes would be nice). I suppose it’s not limited to physics, if you want to test Lights, primitives, graphics, or whatever you can do that too.

Have fun!

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STAT, Barny

[Dark]

Good idea 

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[randr]

Very neat idea. and neat layout!

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[Sliderpoint]

I guess I should also recommend 10.2 beta as it has the extra flipper settings for better adjustments.

I’ll also start with some of the settings that I have and why.

Rubber height: 29.5.  This is how high rubbers are on a real table.   Although, as @ClarkKent pointed out if you set them that high you can get crazy “ball crawling”.  So to counter act the ball crawling, I’ve found that I can increase the friction on the table and the ball won’t do that.  So now you know why I do that and why I set PF friction at .2.

-Mike

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[Ben Logan2]

Here’s a great video for reference:

 

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1 user thanked author for this post.

Barny

[Sliderpoint]

+1   Although I only looked at the video to try to figure out where the ball goes in and comes out of the various kickers, scoops etc.  I did not try to tune the physics at all to that or any other videos (or sadly on any of my own experiences as I haven’t played it ). Edit: hopefully you guys will give it a shot.

Also this one:

 

-Mike

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[Ben Logan2]

This is an awesome surprise, sliderpoint. I’ve really been enjoying your raised friction physics settings lately. In my VPX experience, you and Groni  (with his AFM) have shown some inspiring willingness to experiment with settings, rather than using mukuste’s  original recommendations (which do indeed work amazingly well on many tables). This should be fun!

 

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[Sliderpoint]

PS.  all the layout was strickly guessing and images were just some cheap MS Paint hacking, so feel free to correct anything.

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[HauntFreaks]

well if it was the physics from the BL machine I played, you would have to add some of the worst flippers i ever had on machine…. like a really old EM with 2″ flippers that the solenoids were ready to give out at any second…
my wife and I played it, she turned to me and said, is there something wrong with these flippers?…

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[Clark Kent]

My personal tests for the last year or so showed that a playfield friction of 0,065 to 0,08 is much better and more realistic. Mukuste recommended starting at 0,08. Lower values only result in a very fast ball movement.

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[randr]

would everyone say flippers are spaced apart properly? using this as a guide for my mad scientist build and need opinions of that too.

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[Sliderpoint]

They are almost right on the 7″ spacing.  I did them visually so I didn’t actually measure to make sure they were 329.42 vp units apart, but that is what 7″ spacing would be and these should probably be changed to if they aren’t.  I understand there are some pins with narrower and some wider (em’s a lot wider).

As far as the length of the flippers… I’m still not 100% how that is measured.  Are the 3″ flippers – 3″ with rubber or without rubber? If it’s without rubber, how much does rubber add.  Is that measured end to end or from the pivot point to the end?  That info is probably around somewhere or someone here knows it.

-Mike

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[randr]

Ah. well shoot so best to eyeball then

 

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[Sliderpoint]

OK, so I realize you are joking a bit, but I’ve done some digging and measuring.  What I think would be considered “normal” for modern machines is actually a 6.75″ flipper gap.   SO actually it should be 317.655 vp units between flippers on the X position.

I also did some digging on flippers and rubber and what not.  The default settings for the flippers are not very accurate. On real bats, 3 inches is the total length of the flipper (measured at the bottom) without rubber.  For out purposes in VP we need to include the rubber thickness for the VP flippers settings.  So after some more measuring and math, this is what the measurements in VP should be to replicate ‘real’ 3″ flippers.

That is pretty accurate I believe.

-Mike

EDIT:  I should mention that these measurements are good if you are also using a proper number on your table width in VP  (eg: 952.965 for a 20.25″ wide standard table, 952 is probably close enough).  I’ve seen a lot of tables at 1000, 1024,1080 etc. that were created at those sizes for graphics reasons or what not. Those sizes would require skewing the above numbers to make the scale’s match.

Attachments:

1. 

   3inchflippers.png
   

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[Ben Logan2]

I spent a few hours the other night dailing in what seemed to me to be some fairly realistic physics. I’ll upload to Dropbox and supply and link once I have a chance to revisit and tweak some more.

I know this is kind of a divisive subject. Some folks seem to feel that mukuste’s original recommendations should be adhered to strictly (afterall, the guy is gnarly! Amazing mathematician / pinball enthusiast — what a combo!). Others love to experiment with the toolkit. I’m in the latter camp.

Part of what makes the VPX physics engine so cool is that there are different ways to achieve similarly great results, each with its own accent. For example, if you feel a certain table needs a weightier feeling ball, you can raise gravity and lower table slope. Or you can go the other direction: Lower gravity (to achieve huge brandnew-rubber bounce off the flippers and a lot of perceived randomness) and raise table slope. PS — I hope I have this right — I’m not at the cab!

The VPX physics engine is so good that it lends itself to flexibility and experimentation, while still capturing the essence of mukuste’s genius.

By the way, whatever happened to that guy!? He seems to have left the scene right when I discovered VPX.

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[Sliderpoint]

Here I have re-adjusted the flippers to be more accurate to a ‘standard’ table.  I also thought the table didn’t have enough ‘bounce’ so I’ve messed around with the rubber settings seems the outlane posts need to be dialed back, but I thought the flippers and upper lanes were pretty good.

-Mike

Attachments:

1. TBL-mwr-v1.2.zip

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[energumeno]

hi, im new in vpx i trying configurate.

thanks for all tables . now i go to play any

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[randr]

thanks for update.

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[Sliderpoint]

So in this last update had some more rubber physics adjustments. I also upped the gravity setting. I saw this in Frens tables and I noticed it added that last bit to give the ball a weighty feel. I didn’t go up much but it was a noticeable difference.

There are a couple extra objects on the table as well. A wall that is 6-3/4 wide to check flipper distance. A object that was used to check flipper and lane guide angles. It was originally a 3D printable level for pinballs. I added a 2 inch flipper in the top corner to copy/paste if you want. Edit: there is also a degree wheel image on a flasher that I use to help determine kicker angles.

This is not a vpm table so there shouldn’t be any flipper lag, beyond your hardware input.(since that’s a hot topic right now)

These feel like really good settings to me, curious what others think.

-Mike

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[randr]

Yeah i was going to ask if it had hidden flippers but then i was like oh no reason for that in this.

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