This topic contains 20 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  Siggi 2 days, 8 hours ago.

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  • #73893
     RustyCardores 
    Moderator
    MemberModerator

    Many thanks to randr for giving SSF (Surround Sound Feedback for Visual Pinball) a new home here in the VPINBALL forum.

    DJRobX and myself will of course continue to maintain the SSF Facebook Group, but this will be our home for those users without Facebook.

    What is SSF?  I’m glad you asked….

    SSF was formerly known as ‘PMD – Poor Man’s DOF’.

    SSF (Surround Sound Feedback) is a surround sound driven, tactile feedback system for VPX 10.4 (Visual Pinball), that can work along side existing solenoid based DOF, or run as an alternative to it.

    Why use SSF in place of solenoid based DOF?

    It’s cheap, easy and very effective.

    * Supports an infinite number of table locations for sound & tactile feedback

    * Supports sound tracking (ie ball rolling sound follows the ball)

    * Supports every sound the table makes.

    * Maintains individual table character. (Not the same solenoid clunk for every table)

    * Can be installed in less than an hour

    * Can be installed in a variety of configurations from basic stereo feedback to full blown surround sound/feedback

    * Virtually maintenance free.

    * Works with every table, even those not scripted for surround sound (these play with L/R stereo feedback)

    Why use SSF along side existing solenoid based DOF installs?

    * Because it doesn’t truly replicate a shaker or blower. (although the SSF shaker is not that bad)

    * Because it fills the gaps that DOF leaves and will take your cab to a whole new level of realism!


     

    These are the basic configuration options for SSF.  Please refer to the attached diagrams (open in new tab for full size), as we have found these to be the easiest way to describe the systems…

    The Rob Method utilises the one main sub for both backglass music/voice and also for the mechanical table sounds.  Bass is shared to this sub and the exciters from all surround channels by using a custom Peace/EqualizerAPO config file.  This is the neatest configuration and provides maximum bass feedback at the exciters. (2.0 amps used SSF – 2.1 amp used for BG)

    The Rusty Method was born from the original PMD (pre-surround sound) hardware and utilises multiple sub outputs of 2.1 amps.  This configuration provides additional volume level controls in all areas of the SSF system, however it does mean that full bass is not being directed to the 4 corner exciters.  Feedback is therefore quite dependant on the lockdown sub exciter.  This method is only recommended for custom lockdown bars (normally timber) that provide the space required for the sub exciter installation.*

    * Additional side sub exciters can be used as an alternative. Some users have also successfully used a front audio sub mounted on a crossbar at the front of the cab.

    In both the above cases a single 7.1 Surround Sound output is required. This can be from motherboard or from an added 7.1 card.

    (It is possible to utilise VPX 10.4’s Quad output (rather than 7.1) and dual sound cards. If this is the hardware available to you, please start a new thread for instructions.)

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    #73910
     xenonph 
    Participant
    MemberContributor

    Thank you so much for making this available to those who don’t have Facebook!!!

    Not everyone wants to join Facebook, or sign up for it, or other sites, to get access to things not available anywhere else.

    I am one of these people.

    If I can’t download it from any of the main pinball sites, I just do without it.

    Yes I may miss out on alot of cool stuff.

    But I am stuck in my ways, and am very paranoid to join sites that collect everything you type and do, and save it for who knows why?

    It would be like me asking you to create an account on FBI.gov, before I would give you access to download my mods.

    Yes I do suffer from paranoid schitzophrenia, but better safe than sorry I always say.

    Thanks again!!

    Can’t wait to get a cabinet built!!


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    #73912
     MisterKai 
    Participant

    Fantastic :)

    #73926
     Jack 
    Participant

    This sounds (no pun intended) interesting. Is there a build link somewhere available ?

    #73927
     arconovum 
    Participant
    MemberContributor

    Hey Rusty it’s not SSF it’s FSS..

    #73932
     RustyCardores 
    Moderator
    MemberModerator

    Hey Rusty it’s not SSF it’s FSS..

    ????

    I’m pretty sure “Surround Sound Feedback” = SSF  ….or am I missing something here?

    #73933
     RustyCardores 
    Moderator
    MemberModerator

    This sounds (no pun intended) interesting. Is there a build link somewhere available ?

    I will post some build images in a new thread for you.  There’s not a lot to it though…. my cab (using the Rusty Method) for instance provides full feedback for every sound a table makes, but the cab looks near empty. Cabs using the Rob Method would look even emptier still, as they utilise just the one sub. lol

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    #73950
     Thalamus 
    Participant
    ContributorMember

    No wonder people get confused sometimes. VPX, PM2, PM5, VP9, PBX, FSS, PMD, SSF, DMD, ROM, CPU, GPU … the list is long for those that just want to play :)

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 4 days ago by  Thalamus.

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    #73962
     RustyCardores 
    Moderator
    MemberModerator

    No wonder people get confused sometimes. VPX, PM2, PM5, VP9, PBX, FSS, PMD, SSF, DMD, ROM, CPU, GPU … the list is long for those that just want to play :)

    You left out the most important one… PMS  (The time of the month when one does not dare turn on the pinball machine until the wife is out of the house)


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    #73978
     arconovum 
    Participant
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    No wonder people get confused sometimes. VPX, PM2, PM5, VP9, PBX, FSS, PMD, SSF, DMD, ROM, CPU, GPU … the list is long for those that just want to play :)

    Don’t go work for NASA than…


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    #74425
     Jack 
    Participant

    This sounds (no pun intended) interesting. Is there a build link somewhere available ?

    I will post some build images in a new thread for you. There’s not a lot to it though…. my cab (using the Rusty Method) for instance provides full feedback for every sound a table makes, but the cab looks near empty. Cabs using the Rob Method would look even emptier still, as they utilise just the one sub. lol

    That would be great ! I have seen the thread on Aussie Arcade which is a 43 page read! So would be nice to get some sort of “manuaL” to install the amps, speakers etc. and how to get the ssf table scripts. I also read that the 10.4 vpx version supports surround sounds. Does this mean that the SSF scripts are no longer needed ?

    Thanks again for your reply.

    Regards

    Jack

     

     

     

     

    #74426
     Jack 
    Participant

    Are these usable as tactile exciters ? https://www.bol.com/nl/p/dayton-audio-tt25-16-puck-tactile-transducer-mini-bass-shaker-speaker-16-ohm/9200000040816341/

    #74431
     RustyCardores 
    Moderator
    MemberModerator

    This sounds (no pun intended) interesting. Is there a build link somewhere available ?

    I will post some build images in a new thread for you. There’s not a lot to it though…. my cab (using the Rusty Method) for instance provides full feedback for every sound a table makes, but the cab looks near empty. Cabs using the Rob Method would look even emptier still, as they utilise just the one sub. lol

    That would be great ! I have seen the thread on Aussie Arcade which is a 43 page read! So would be nice to get some sort of “manuaL” to install the amps, speakers etc. and how to get the ssf table scripts. I also read that the 10.4 vpx version supports surround sounds. Does this mean that the SSF scripts are no longer needed ? Thanks again for your reply. Regards Jack

    Table scripts need to be updated for SSF to have surround sound.  10.4 and beyond supports the AudioFade command and this is what puts the sound on table in the correct front/back position. Combine that with the existing Pan command (left/right) and a sound can now be placed anywhere on the table.

    Non-SSF scripts or older tables will generally only carry the Pan command (on some sounds, rarely all)….. these will still play perfectly fine on SSF equipped cabs, but there will only be left/right separation and not front/back.  They will still sound and feel better than just letting all the sounds go to the backglass though.

     

     

    #74432
     RustyCardores 
    Moderator
    MemberModerator

    Are these usable as tactile exciters ? https://www.bol.com/nl/p/dayton-audio-tt25-16-puck-tactile-transducer-mini-bass-shaker-speaker-16-ohm/9200000040816341/%5B/quote%5D

    16 ohm may be too much, as generally the smaller/cheaper amps are rated as 4-8 ohm, so check you amp requirments before any exciter purchase.

    Also, these pucks are designed to sit in a shallow hole, so they require a little more work than surface mount exciters.  That said, some members have used them simply screwed flat to the cab surface.

    I have two of them in my cab (I made surrounds for them to sit in rather than cut a shallow hole) and to be honest I was not a big fan of them.  They are now disconnected and I have surface mount exciters running in their place.  I personally prefer the surface mount for sound and feel.

    #74454
     Siggi 
    Participant

    Thanks to Rusty for this Forum, I hate Facebook because  I have no friends. (very sad Smiley)

    By the way which tactile exciters can you recommend?

    • This reply was modified 1 week ago by  Siggi.
    #74507
     RustyCardores 
    Moderator
    MemberModerator

    Thanks to Rusty for this Forum, I hate Facebook because I have no friends. (very sad Smiley) By the way which tactile exciters can you recommend?

    You should join Facebook and friend me, then we will each have 1 ;)

    Re exciters:  Have a look here…. http://vpinball.com/forums/topic/example-ssf-installations/


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    #74804
     Jack 
    Participant

    I would like to give this a go. Is there a dedicated download section for SSF modded tables ? I have a 2.1 lepai amp lying around, and would like to start using only the front exciters. What should the Soundcard config be in this case ?

    #74847
     RustyCardores 
    Moderator
    MemberModerator

    I would like to give this a go. Is there a dedicated download section for SSF modded tables ? I have a 2.1 lepai amp lying around, and would like to start using only the front exciters. What should the Soundcard config be in this case ?

    There is no dedicated download section, as more and more more tables are being released by authors with surround sound implemented. Now that 10.4 is official, I think you will find that surround sound will soon become the norm as it is easy to add to a table build and will work on all cabs, even those that are not equipped for surround sound.

    If running just a single set of exciters at the front of the cab, I would recommend adding an audio sub (you have a 2.1 amp after all) and positioning it toward the back of your cab.  SSF works best when there is an additional bass audio component to compliment the exciters and having this coming from the back of your cab, will create a “balance” of sound so that the mechanical sounds appear to be coming from the table area (not just from the flipper area).

    Seeing that you are only using one additional amp, the easy way to separate the mechanical sounds from the backglass sound, would be feed the Lepai from a secondary “regular” sound card that has been selected in the VPX audio options window.  This secondary sound card can be an added PCI/USB card, but you most likely can use what you already have, as the secondary card can also be any one of your HDMI connected screens that has an “audio out”.

    #75061
     Siggi 
    Participant

    Maybe a silly question but were do I get the “Peace/EqualizerAPO config file” and how to use it?

    #75062
     RustyCardores 
    Moderator
    MemberModerator

    DJRobX is our resident Peace/APO expert and he has gone skiing the lucky bugga.  I am sure he will chime in on his return if any of our other users haven’t. (Sorry, but these configs are not my thing)

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