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The last topic has quite rightly been closed, but think this deserves it’s own thread. This is not to continue the negative comments of that thread, but simply ask what could the VP community do differently that would make not paying someone else for free content an absolute no brainer.
This is a question, so please don’t get mad at me. I absolutely agree that people should not profit from something that is available for free and has been created by others hard work, but we do need to ask why people would. This has all happened before in the emulation scene and the main reason it happened, was that it was often to difficult / time consuming to get everything together and setup correctly. I have spent an huge amount of time setting up the software and tables on my virtual pin cab. In truth far far longer than is reasonable. I came to this from the arcade and emulation scene and have lots of friends that I know would absolutely love VP if they got into it. (One friend recently played on my VP and went and bought a real pin!) The problem is I would not want them to have to repeat the amount of effort I have put in getting all set-up right. What we should actually want is people spending the time actually playing and enjoying this wonderful hobby. I bought my pin cab from ebay with some tables installed and without that I would not be part of this scene. However this wasn’t for profit, the parts for the cab I bought cost more that I paid for it. The seller was just about to build himself a new one. The tables were badly set-up and out of date, so I spent months setting all the software up correctly. I am really happy with the results
My question is why would people pay for something that is free? Do we need to find a ways to make this far easier for people to get set-up and running well, while still ensuring the authors get the credit they deserve. This hobby is great and I would like to see many more people get involved and enjoy it, but the one thing I have to challenge is the belief that if people don’t put in loads of effort to get it all set-up they are unlikely to contribute. In truth the reverse is true, if it didn’t take so long people would actually have much more time to be able to contribute and there may be many great table builders out there that just haven’t discovered Visual Pinball yet!Frens reply
You are truly an exception, my biggest fear when people sell these things pre-loaded is that we are going to lose the community. Thank you for participating and bucking the trend. Many people out there have cabinets they bought pre-loaded, from many different distributors, I hope many of them find a way to participate as you have. Also, I’m not against all-in-one installers. Easier to access installations is great. Anything to make this process painless. My concern is that when there’s people making money off of this, it’s bringing the wrong kind of attention to the hobby. That’s when legal threats get real, that’s when websites get shut down. I’m not against making this easier to access, quite the contrary! but I just want it done in a legal way that drives people to the community. And I don’t say this as a VPinball community, or a VPForums or VPUniverse or Monsterbashpincab divide, I consider it all the same community. As long as we know where to go.
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In the arcade scene, people built and sold replica’s / bar tops pre loaded with 1000’s of games and it brought many more people to the community. Many moved onto real machines or got more involved with the emulation. My big point is many of these replica’s / bar tops found there way into kids bedrooms, who never got the experience them the first time round. My young son loves playing on my visual pinball cab, but it’s unlikely any of his friend will ever get the chance or even see a real pinball machine. There are only three place with pinball machines in the whole of London! Visual pinball has a chance to introduce pinball to a new generation and preserve pinball for generations to come. We need to think bigger picture. Stern are not worried as this is introducing more and more people to pinball and actually increasing there sales. I for one am now looking to buy a real pin after enjoying Visual Pinball so much.
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Moved post
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Nicco84. Please respect that this is a new thread and not intended to continue the negativity from the previous thread. Please can you edit/remove. I am trying to look at the issue from a different perspective.
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Sorry Andypc, open new thread
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Nicco84 you can edit your post to remove the comments and repost on topic.
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I’d love to see it easier to access. The more the merrier, this isn’t a members only club! I mean, it is, you have to sign up but still :)
There is no universal install, there’s the all-in-one installer on VPF which installs all the software, which is great. But the tables and roms and b2s are still manual. VPDB (freezy’s site) gets us one step closer to full automation, I just hope it doesn’t take the community out of it. Besides all the arguing, there’s some fun stuff here, knowledgeable smart and funny people. That participation brings in new developers, new talents who can make new tables and bring new ideas to table building. There needs to be a bridge between that and an easier to access installation for new users. I see the benefit that there is to new users who pay for this stuff, the chinese cabs on ebay and things like that, but ethically I disagree with it. Can someone bring that ease of use for free? I don’t know….
Punch it!
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LOL…. it always comes down to “make it easier” for new guys….
if someone cant use the “all-in-one” installer…. they need to move on to TPA
because he or she isnt meant for this hobby….
short version of my story, when i first “tried” to install VP years ago…
I tried over and over… and gave up… so I used future pinball for a while… and was talked into trying one more time by pinball shawn
somehow I got it to work, I couldnt tell you what i did different….
anyway…. i know how hard it used to be, it isn’t like that anymore and now with so many tutorials even if you install everything one piece it still not that hardok so that takes care of the programs
so what about tables/b2s/wheels, blah blah blah
again this isn’t rocket science…. but lets say it is…. now with the spreadsheet of every table possible… there is NO reason people can get and find what they want…in the end… this hobby is build on regular dudes making thing so we can relive our childhoods, or want to play something we will never get to play in real life
why do they do it??… first reason, for themselves… then to share it with the community
what do they want in return??…. respect for what they did for FREE… not for people to profit off someone else kindness
so NO nothing in this hobby should ever be sold… its a not for profit hobby, that means all the software used to run the tables that are built by the community
other aspects of the hobby, cabs, hardware… that free game…
but remember no content, no hobby….
the leeches and poachers, the same no talent non-contributors that feel selling other people’s work, again that was never intended to be sold… should be hunted and taken care of
I have a personal interest in this mentality, I have 3D print files that CLEARLY state they the designs are to never be sold…. but , there they are on ebay and etsy…
I’ve been part of a bunch of vp table builds…. there were never to be sold… but last year… there they are being sold in pincabs…..
these people are POS with poor ethics… and no talents other than the same talent grandma has when shes burning discs of pics of her grandchildren … and should NEVER be supportedYou need to login in order to like this post: click here
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I’m not even sure I’m meant for this hobby, I couldn’t even install VPinMAME correctly. 3 days ago.
Punch it!
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I’m not even sure I’m meant for this hobby, I couldn’t even install VPinMAME correctly. 3 days ago.
it took me 3 days to update everything (old school way)….but then again i’m old and braindead
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Same here 3 days to catch up. Makes you appreciate the effort nothing good is easy
edit phone changed nothing to mother?
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LOL…. it always comes down to “make it easier” for new guys…. if someone cant use the “all-in-one” installer…. they need to move on to TPA because he or she isnt meant for this hobby…. short version of my story, when i first “tried” to install VP years ago… I tried over and over… and gave up… so I used future pinball for a while… and was talked into trying one more time by pinball shawn somehow I got it to work, I couldnt tell you what i did different…. anyway…. i know how hard it used to be, it isn’t like that anymore and now with so many tutorials even if you install everything one piece it still not that hard ok so that takes care of the programs so what about tables/b2s/wheels, blah blah blah again this isn’t rocket science…. but lets say it is…. now with the spreadsheet of every table possible… there is NO reason people can get and find what they want…
I really must challenge this. Yes it really does come down to make it easier for the new guys, but that also makes it easier for all of us and I don’t understand why people in this hobby think that’s a bad thing. Why should people that struggle to get VP working or struggle to find the time to set things up correctly have to make do with TPA? If it was easy no one would need to pay idiots trying to sell other peoples work. Everyone would have more time actually playing and enjoying all the effort put into VP and the tables. We absolutely need to make this hobby easier, but we need to break the mentality that says because it wasn’t easy for me why should other people get it easy! I feel like I have wasted months of my life getting my VP set-up right and would want people to benefit from my experience so it’s easy and quicker for those that follow, not have them have to go thought it all again. I could give lots of examples of thing that could be improved or help. Some improvements have already be made (PBXrecorder, Wheel Logo Packs, All in one installer) but we have a long way to go. Why is it ok for sites to offer rom downloads, but not verified rom sets that match the current version of Vpinmame? I have a two screen setup so DMD position is different for each table depending on the backglass. First time I reinstalled Visual Pinball after upgrading my pc and doing a fresh install I wasted hours setting up all the DMD positions again. Why? Now I know to back up the registry files for Vpinmame etc and can restore them in seconds, but this should be an easier process for people not wanting to mess with registry files. Why can’t the backglass provide the correct position for the DMD? Why are backglass not packaged with the tables? Monsterbash made progress putting all the files for each table together. Why do some authors deliberately leave their tables with really poor full screen settings? i.e. not even correctly rotated? No consistent version control of tables or backglasses. Do I have the latest version of this table? I don’t know as table info is rarely updated by authors. We all want table authors to get the credit they deserve, but I have some tables with no table info completed so I have no idea who to thank for their efforts! The tables are amazing
but lots can be down to improve how it all pulls together.You need to login in order to like this post: click here
Quality issues are endemic because VP is community driven. It’s people’s hobbies, not their jobs.
So if you put a reassuring price sticker on it, that all goes away?
Now we’re talkin’
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From where I stand, I don’t really care if this hobby becomes more accessible to a wider audience or attracts a more lazy audience by becoming easier. My concern is new blood, the community needs more new authors or people with skills to put tables together. The common trend seems to be member ‘X’ starts out as a modest author and over time rises to stardom, goes on a tear and puts out boatloads of great content then gets burned out and slowly recedes into the background if not retiring completely. I can think of a lot of names that fit that criteria, many of them I would consider friends.
“If you build it they will come”, so long as there are good quality builds being made and a great place like this to get them from, people will come. I first got involved in this hobby during the VP8 days and my story is very similar to Haunt’s. I loved the look of FP but hated the game play and I wanted the rom based games which is what ultimately got me to struggle to make VP8 work. Vp8 for those of you who don’t remember looks like total ass by today’s standards. Some of the tables today with out a doubt surpass their TPA counter parts, so if that trend continues the hobby can’t help but get attention.
I think the VPB wiki was a great addition so I guess my point is, we really need to work on filling out that VPB wiki! :P
….And tutorials section.
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I never EVER thought that I would get so sucked into virtual pinball, that for the last 1.5 years I have played very little of my AAA PC Games, or my simpit. If you knew me, or have ever tried my simpit, you would know that is quite a feat. I sacrificed my 10 ft wide, x3 42 inch triple screen setup to build my cabinet.
I also never thought I would start to be a contributor in some form or another. I’ve always made things….videos…images….art….3d models, etc over the years, but never had a central place to focus all of that. I used to do some Lightwave modeling way back in the mid 90’s. I was a big Amiga and Babylon 5 nut back then, but haven’t touched it ever since.
So, I found one thing that was missing and needed some love….
I like Future Pinball….no, I LOVE Future Pinball. I love the graphics, the sound, the looks, the feel, and YES the gameplay. I like to PLAY Future Pinball. Are the flipper physics wonky sometimes? Sure. Doesn’t matter to me. I actually play BETTER on FP than I do on VP (mostly). Don’t know why…maybe I just suck that bad…don’t care. It’s fun to me.
Once I found my way to the love of DOF and cabinet lighting and feedback for VP, I was HOOKED. I’ve been an electronics tech for over 22 years now, and this was an area that really started to appeal to me. Loved what I was seeing with VP and DOF…. but FP was lacking the same thing.
Then I met DDH69 who created a program called DOFFX2, that allowed for simple “key to output” type control of DOF controlled hardware for use with Pinball FX2. That alone was a HUGE feat that people wanted for years. So I encouraged him to expand on what he did to include that functionality for ANY program. He did. That too was a HUGE deal…and still is to this day.
Then DDH69 was inspired to allow DOFFX2 to directly control DOF hardware from within FP itself, similar to how VP can. Full DOF’ing of FP tables with all the latest cabinet toys. I was one of his beta testers, and gave him lots of ideas and encouraged him to rename DOFFX2 to something more universal. Well hot damn his listened to me and pulled it off! FP now has full DOF feedback and lighting capability thanks to the newly named DOFLinx program.
Shortly afterward he was able to get full feedback for Pinball FX2…more limited but still all the main devices on tables have feedback and lighting now…all through software….excellent.
I found something I had an excitement for….adding full cabinet feedback and lighting to FP tables that never had anything like that before. So I gave it a go, and found I was getting pretty good at it….. Not only that, but I was able to do some effects, animations and other things in a way that you have never ever seen in virtual cabinet before. It also inspired others to give it a go…and they have been getting good at it too. I’m really proud of that.
So I wanted to show some of that off in my YouTube channel. I find that its a great way to show off tables, and also what I can pull off. I get a lot of positive feedback from people over those silly videos. Including some table authors (SLAMT1LT, etc), who now have an actual interest in building a cabinet someday.
This kind of feedback is wonderful. It’s the least I can do to give back to a community that has been wonderful to me, and the authors who put in so much work into these works or art.
I know that FP is not as popular among cabinet owners as VP. I do look at the number of downloads of DOFLinx modded tables, and I know they don’t compare to the number of VP downloads….but that’s ok because a lot of people still get joy from these tables in their cabinets now.
I’ve started to dabble in VP DOF now, and also love it. Sadly I’m the middle of trying to sell my house, so I’ve been crazy busy…but I’ve do more when I can.
I love being excited about this stuff!
One day I would love to get the time to try my hand at making my own tables. FP and VP! The two tables I absolutely would love to do would be Silent Hill, and Babylon 5. I have some great ideas, and would love to see them come to life one day.
Holy crap…what the hell did this post turn into….its very late…I’ve been cleaning all day…I’m tired and wound up… and I can’t play loud pinball now…. :(
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Have you played Doom on Pinball FX2?
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Have you played Doom on Pinball FX2?
I have…not extensively…but yes.
It is one of the better FX2 tables I think. I love the theme and the recent Doom reboot for PC. I like how this table lets you pick missions, chapters, etc… I like tables that do things like that.
PFX2 can be a bit of a bore at times…but damn they have some really talented artists, and they really have some creative ideas. I just wish they would redesign how they do their sound and music. It just seems to drag on. We need to see the loud, obnoxious part of Pinball that we all love!
Also, the newer render engine that they use for the Oculus Rift version of tables looks soooo much nicer! Some really good “realistic” lighting effects for those version of their tables.
I haven’t played a much as I would like though…. but with DOFLinx support for ALL PFX2 tables now, they are so much more fun in a cabinet with full lighting and feedback thanks to DDH69!
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How expensive would it be to place a “permanent” ad on Ebay etc. that would simply explain that the stuff is available for free here? The title could even reference for free. Seems to me this would educate folks as well as draw them into the community and squash the efforts of folks trying to profit.
My VP Pincab /MAME Arcade Specs: MSI Micro-ATX Z390m MOBO, Core I5-9600K CPU @ 3.70GHz, 16GB NVRAM, Nvidia 1660 Super,
40" PF Sony gaming LED TV, Dual 23" monitors in the backbox , Pinscape w. expansion board, Full DOF - Full MAME arcade support
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Only way would be to self police these losers yourself and report each sale. that is impossible to do! plus most this stuff happens outside the USA i cannot keep up with that. Nobody can. I sure wish people would own up to mistakes and maybe understand you maybe it is wrong to do! People can change if educated i really believe that.
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Messing with the VPinball app and push notifications.
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Setup alert on ebay(usa site) with visual pinball as key word then you will be emailed daily with new listings
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Messing with the VPinball app and push notifications.
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