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  • #193987
    redrooster
    Participant
    @redrooster
    Member

    I’m reading these comments and I’m starting to believe there is a almost completed WIP somewhere?  Is that true?

    #194007
    arkadejohn
    Participant
    @arkadejohn

    bonebusters solenoids 4, 7, 8

    had chance to open bone busters,

    as far as I can tell… (matching what you have in code)

    q53 on A3 driver board operates the knocker designated as solenoid 8

    q55 on A3 driver board, solenoid 4, drives Q2 of the Transistor Driver Board 1A16, operates 2 bulbs, half of “Light Box Insert / Light Box Show”

    Q56 on A3 driver board, solenoid 7 drives Q1 of the Transistor Driver Board 1A16, which operates the other 2 bulbs of the “Light Box Insert / Light Box Show”

    I couldn’t find the definition of the “Light Box Insert / Light Box Show” but the lights light up the right hand side, white washed-out doorway (portal) on the backglass where the skeletons are coming from.

    I rung these out with meter comparing to the manual. i saw no other branches on schematics or in harness.

    Not sure if this answers your quest? Guessing it is the 2 sets of bulbs that need set for the light show.

    2 users thanked author for this post.
    #194082
    32assassin
    Participant
    @32assassin
    Member

    @arkadejohn

    any chance you can take this image

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/06e9i816fein7n0/Bone%20Busters.jpg?dl=0

    and map all the Dynamic GI bulbs  to their IDs  similar to what I did for the Bally and Williams backglass

    where

    Brown = String 1

    Yellow = String 2

    Orange = String 3

    Green = String 4

    Purple = String 5

     

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/vcg88odnuprz8f2/Bram%27s%20Dracula.jpg?dl=0

    see a table you like help me find the resources so that I can finish it
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7qtake9whi5ium2/AAB4K4W78oMVlqSxTzKtGHTHa?dl=0

    #194145
    arkadejohn
    Participant
    @arkadejohn

    sure, no problem, least I can do. Just struggling in general getting into all this. Took a while to find the manual, who would have thought it would be on the book shelf (sigh). The electronic versions left out a lot, the real manual is complete. My table model is low 700’s for reference, had a few minor electronics updates listed.

    As soon as I get a family break to see how much I can get done.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #194292
    arkadejohn
    Participant
    @arkadejohn

    Brief operational description of the Bone Busters Lightbox lighting, based on schematic against machine.

    As best I can determine, sorry if redundant information, unsure amount of detail needed.

    UPDATE: I discovered that in a vpinball b2s discussion had the mapping of the lights

    https://vpinball.com/VPBdownloads/bone-busters-premier-1989-db2s-for-2-and-3-screen/#bbpress

    https://vpinball.com/wp-content/uploads/hm_bbpui/144141/yq8wdz5zh8pz7s9a1je8cyn30c74t3cu.jpg

    ———————————————————
    The lightbox general illumination lights are always on; only interrupted by the TILT RELAY (A3-L1). They are wired with bare bus bar across back of the Lightbox, mostly #44 bulbs (29), a few #455 (4) blinking bulbs to accent a few artwork features (6.3vac)

    The AUXILARY LIGHTS (chasers) are #67 bulbs (12v on 24v) set of 10 (20 bulbs) in pairs of 2 (paralleled), lit by AUX DRIVER BOARD, Q1 thru Q10
    The AUXILARY LIGHTS are sequenced by a 7490 decade counter clocked by a 555 timer running at about 10.5Hz.
    The bulb pairs are driven off a BCD to DEC decoder, so the light pairs have about a 100ms flash every second. The pairs are distributed apart from each other to form a more random flash pattern while sequencing. The only interaction with the CPU is the AUX LAMP RELAY “B” controlling the 24 volt source to the bulbs. The wire colors of my lightbox do not match the schematic.

    The AUX LAMP RELAY “B” is controlled by A3-L15 of the 74175 quad D-FF, (buffered by Q16). A1-DS4 clocks the ff, A1-LD1-LD4 is the data of the SOLENOID LAMP CONTROL (port b).

    The LIGHT SHOW bulbs are 2 pairs of #67 bulbs, 4 total. A3-SOLENOID7, Q1 drives the upper 2 bulbs, A3-SOLENOID4, Q2 drives the lower 2 bulbs. (12v bulb on 24v, bright but burn out often) (I thought they were shorted somewhere but it was the socket was the hot wire, reversed from normal)
    ———————————————————

    Additional information can be provided, I am familiarizing myself with the table preparing to freshen it up as well as diving into pinmame further.

    Attachments:
    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #194393
    32assassin
    Participant
    @32assassin
    Member

    I have that backglass and went through the IDs used

    the B2s designer does not support duel controllers

    sol (enabled) + Light # ON = Function 1

    sol (enabled) + Light # OFF = Function 2

    You can only map  Sol (enabled)  OR  Light # On

    I don’t know if the Green and Cyan Flasher turn on as Function 1 or Function 2

    this is why I need to script them in the table as B2s data call.

     

     

    does this seem right to you

    this is what I’m going to add to the script

    GI =  Tilt relay

    Yellow = Always Blinking —> off when GI off

    Green = High Powered Flasher Sol 4

    Cyan = High Powered Flasher Sol 7

    Red = sequence chaser  (Sol 8???)

    1 ON rest off –> 2 ON rest off –> 3 On rest off —> …..—> 10 On rest off –> all off

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/h1mnvzzroz9sv6j/Bone%20Busters.jpg?dl=0

    see a table you like help me find the resources so that I can finish it
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7qtake9whi5ium2/AAB4K4W78oMVlqSxTzKtGHTHa?dl=0

    #194468
    arkadejohn
    Participant
    @arkadejohn
    This reply has been set as private.
    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #194477
    32assassin
    Participant
    @32assassin
    Member

    Based on the videos I watched

    the PF Aux board Lights are on while the Aux board lights in the Backglass are off

     

     

     

    I was under the impression that their was  3 separate Aux boards

    2 on the PF that turned on and off based on the Bonus that was lit (Water bonus or Jogging Bonus)

    and a 3rd  for the backglass  that only turns on when certain events are triggered

     

    I mapped the PF Aux lights  to this sequence

    Aux 1  lights  Light  1-4

    Aux 2 lights Lights 5-10

    Capture

     

    Aux 3 was going to light  the Backglass

    Relay A labeled as “Playboard Aux Lamp”  in the service manual

    Relay A = Light ID 14  is currently enabling  both Aux boards

    When L14=ON –>  Aux1=ON, Aux2=OFF

    When L14=OFF –>  Aux1=OFF, Aux2=ON   (See video this is the case at 3:09)

     

    So an updated version with IDs

    Tilt Relay  = L1 — PF GI

    PF Aux board (always ON) –>  off when PF GI OFF  ( but don’t know what to do with Relay A)

     

    S relay = L13  –>  Only Used for Sol 1, 2, 3, 5, 6

    Sol3  (ON) + S relay (OFF) =  Skull Flasher ( Topper)

     

    A Relay = L14  ( Playboard  Aux Lamp Relay)

    B Relay = L15 (Lightbox Aux Lamp Relay)

    C Relay = L18 (Skull Motor Relay)

     

    SOl 4 (ON) +  B Relay (ON) =  will light  what you labeled as Q2 in the backglass

    Sol 4 (ON) + B Relay (OFF) =  High Powered Flasher

    SOl7 (ON) + B Relay (ON) = will light  what you labled as Q1 in the backglass

    Sol 7 (ON) + B Relay (OFF) =  High Powered Flasher

    Backglass Aux Board –> Needs a controller

    and the knocker has been confirmed by the service manual schematic

    mapped directly to sol 8

    SolCallback(8)= “vpmSolSound SoundFX(“”Knocker””,DOFKnocker),”

     

    So we only need to confirm

    PF Aux Board and Relay A

    What triggers the Backglass Auxboard(Chaser light circuit)

    or

    find what  Enables and disables Lamp Driver MA-866

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gottlieb-Aux-Chase-Lamp-Driver-Board-MA-866-/203049837400

    witch is what is driving the 10 lamps in the Backglass.

     

     

     

     

    see a table you like help me find the resources so that I can finish it
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7qtake9whi5ium2/AAB4K4W78oMVlqSxTzKtGHTHa?dl=0

    #194516
    arkadejohn
    Participant
    @arkadejohn

    There are 2 AUX LAMP DRIVER BOARDS, 1A11 for the PF, 2A11 for the LB,  xA11P1 is a 4 pin but only 2 pins have wires, xA11P2 is a 10 pin, pin numbers match Q numbers for transistors and Count in sequence.

    The 3rd driver  board is the TRANSISTOR DRIVER BOARD A16, Q1, 2, 3 all on 1 connector.

    Then there are a few discrete transistor on PF and LB, the addition of the new driver board was to cut down the number of discrete parts and consolidate them according to the documentation.

    —————————

    I can confirm, both LB & PF Aux boards do have not enable to control. Yes there is a terminal on the connector for ENABLE but in the manual, they are labeled (unused) and I checked and there are only 2 wires on the input connector, +5V and Return. There are no wires going to the ENABLE, so they are free running, always cycling (counting).

    Any CPU control over the PF & LB are thru the relays, A for PF, B for LB. There are 2 wires to the aux boards input side and 10 wires out of the board. The 24 volts comes from the relays.

    Unless there is a splice in the harness, I can’t find any other path, nor can I find anything else in the manual.  I have text somewhere, maybe the Gottlieb training info that states the AUX Lamps are free running as well, just can’t recall where I found that.

    I recall during attract mode, the relays for both the PF and the LB would chatter (toggle/alternate) as well as during bony bonus and special events, it was a very “taunting” game. Normally both PF and LB are in use, both are independent of each other.

    As far as the  S relay,  there are parallel functions for Sol 1,2,3,5,6 providing alternate functions like Center Ramp Top Left Target / 5 Bank Reset.

    I was unsure if implied or is   automatic in code (I am not familiar with the emu yet to know)

    S relay = L13  –>  Only Used for Sol 1, 2, 3, 5, 6

    Sol3  (ON) + S relay (OFF) =  Skull Flasher ( Topper)

    ——————–

    As far as the PF AUX LAMPS (yes, I checked my wire colors and connector first, fool me once…),

    The sequence should be  (#44 bulbs)

    Left Center (lower bus, 2 bulbs)

    Right Center (upper bus, 2 bulbs)

    #1 Arrow-Top – #4 Arrow -Top (un-switched, always powered, 6V DC)

    #1 Arrow Bottom thru #4 Arrow-Bottom (switched on when AUX LAMP RELAY A is on, 6V DC)

    Using your numbers of PF,  sequence is 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 1, 2, 3, 4 (equates to Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4, Q5, Q6, Q7, Q8, Q9, Q10)

    Btw, in the video, it looks like his #2, #3, #4, Arrow-Bottom lights are out. #1 flashes indicating RELAY A is on, so 2, 3, 4 should chase as well

    #194619
    32assassin
    Participant
    @32assassin
    Member

    I guess using the   the term  “controller”   is not the best word to use.

    the aux board runs on an always ON circuit,  but something cuts power to the lights

    as the backglass Aux lights and the PF lights are not ON at the same time

    and given by this image they seem to run on the same Aux board

    2

     

    I downloaded the VP8 and VP9 table to see what they did but

    I’m more confused by what they did

    they basically have 3 aux boards for the PF

    and each is turned on and ON/OFF  by  Relay A, Relay B and Relay C

     

    my updated table

    1 PF aux board with this sequence

    Bulb1 On  –>  Bulb 10

    Capture

     

    PF Aux board Always ON –>  OFF when  TILT relay (L1)  is ON  (aka the power is cut to the GI circuit)

    Backglass Aux Board  (OFF)  –>   Turn ON when PF Aux Board is OFF

     

    Based on this Pic

    1

    Sol4 (ON) + Relay B (ON)  —>  Q2  (from your Backglass ID map)

    SOl4 (ON) + Relay B (OFF)  –>  Backglass 2X  High Powered Flashers

    Sol7 (ON) + Relay B (ON)  —>  Q1  (from your Backglass ID map)

    SOl7 (ON) + Relay B (OFF)  –>  Backglass 2X  High Powered Flashers

     

    if anyone wants to do some beta testing

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/mppoc3w018beq0l/Bone%20Busters%20Inc.%20Beta.vpx?dl=0

    I removed all the plastics and other primitives,  I want to pic if the ball gets stuck anywhere

    Their are 3 lights to the left

    Top = Relay T

    Middle = Relay A

    Bottom = Relay B

    Relay A and Relay B are not mapped to anything in the script,

    they should be cutting the Aux boards  lights but they are not

    as relay T is doing everything

     

     

     

     

    see a table you like help me find the resources so that I can finish it
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7qtake9whi5ium2/AAB4K4W78oMVlqSxTzKtGHTHa?dl=0

    #194662
    arkadejohn
    Participant
    @arkadejohn

    Your PF map/sequence of the AUX looks good.

    Controller/AUX terms OK by me, I’m the embedded type. I was just trying to use the schematic terms so easy traced to documentation.

    The attached fragment of a schematic should show the path for the relays to the PF.

    The LB AUX (controller) for the AUX LAMPS is always powered, always running (sequencing). The 24V passes thru the N.O. Contact of AUX LAMP RELAY “B”. This is what controls the ON/OFF (active or not) LB AUX LAMPS (aka chasers). They can’t stay on long or they will blow out.

    The PF AUX board is always powered, always running (sequencing). The 6V is connected to the LEFT CENTER & RIGHT CENTER + #1 TOP-ARROW thru #4 TOP-ARROW. They are always blinking. I thought they went out in TILT but they can’t, the 5V to the AUX Board and the 6VDC Q1-Q6 PF lamps are not switched. Once I fire up table (after fixing grounds) I will tilt it to confirm.

    The bottom 4 PF arrows #1 – #4 ARROW-BOTTOM (Q7-Q10) are powered by AUX LAMP RELAY “A” (6V), so they only light during special events on the board to highlight jogging path which leads to upper left ramp.

    I will take a quick look at what you uploaded, following up more later when rested. I gotta get familiar with pin code, ok on VB just need to pick up functions and such, there is a lot there. (just found NVOffset, nice, that was bugging me, thumbs-up)

     

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by arkadejohn.
    Attachments:
    #194665
    arkadejohn
    Participant
    @arkadejohn

    Some quirky things but I couldn’t stop, had to play a few games, nice. Never played it without covers, I see more art than usual. Nice job, I will look closer at it later.

    #194666
    sheltemke
    Participant
    @sheltemke
    Member

    Some quirky things but I couldn’t stop, had to play a few games, nice. Never played it without covers, I see more art than usual. Nice job, I will look closer at it later.

    Interesting, i can start the beta(add credits and starts) but i not get any ball out to plunger.

    VPX 10.6 final, Sambuild 5046, deleted nvram, have the rom file, checked registry everything looks fine.

    The old VPX Bone Busters works, no problem there.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by sheltemke.
    #194702
    arkadejohn
    Participant
    @arkadejohn

    You are correct, I deleted my nvram, no start ball. I was going to send previous nvram that worked, but realized during multi-ball, it seemed short one ball. (I was having too much fun still playing wee hours)

    I pressed “b” add ball, then start ball popped out. Let me know if that works for you, if not, I’ll try to help, just not up to speed on wip, still a NB learning.

    #194748
    sheltemke
    Participant
    @sheltemke
    Member

    You are correct, I deleted my nvram, no start ball. I was going to send previous nvram that worked, but realized during multi-ball, it seemed short one ball. (I was having too much fun still playing wee hours)

    I pressed “b” add ball, then start ball popped out. Let me know if that works for you, if not, I’ll try to help, just not up to speed on wip, still a NB learning.

    Yes with “b” it add balls. Everything looks fine for me. No stucks, no problems.

    #194750
    arkadejohn
    Participant
    @arkadejohn

    Glad that helped.

    I do know from time to time the real machine looses track of balls, especially on the harder shots not used as often and contacts get stale, bumping the table helped. I even see a few VP games like that, ball just sitting there on the switch until you nudge it.

    I need to look it over closer, trying to recall physical machine, I did notice some relay stuff seemed out of sorts and some awkward flipper moves but I was just enjoying it at the time, not focusing on fine details. I glance over the code 32A did, trying to soak it in a bit and hopefully can help.

    #202556
    bjschneider93
    Participant
    @bjschneider93
    Member

    Any chance of this being released?

    #202662
    sheltemke
    Participant
    @sheltemke
    Member

    He still needs an information (i don’t know anyone can answer that in the future who have the machine, so…)

    SOl 4  drives Q2  and Q55 (A3 Driver Board)

    Sol 7 drives Q1 and Q56 (A3 Driver Board)

    the thing I like to know is

     

    are Q1 and Q55  enabled at the same time  or does Sol4  have a dual function (enabled by a Relay) ”

     

    This needs to be answered for 32assassin for finish.

Viewing 18 posts - 61 through 78 (of 78 total)
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