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  • #158579
    Rockstead
    Participant
    @rockstead

    I’m having a widebody build commissioned, it’s a once in a lifetime purchase and I don’t want to spare any expense.

    I want all the bells and whistles (literally) that DOF has to offer, full range of solenoids, kickers, slingshots, chimes, bells, shaker, fan, beacons, lights, flashers, nudge, tilt, slam tilt, etc.

    does it make sense to compliment this comprehensive DOF setup with SSF? And if so, what would be the recommended way, and any diagrams or documentation I can reference for this exact type of setup?

    Any reference videos from someone that has done this type of setup?

    Thanks

    #158580
    Thalamus
    Moderator
    @thalamus
    ContributorMemberModerator

    Yes. Personally I can do without DOF. I can’t without SSF. Best is both :)

    #158583
    Rockstead
    Participant
    @rockstead

    Yes. Personally I can do without DOF. I can’t without SSF. Best is both :)

    I have limited knowledge outside of what I’ve been able to dig up reading, but I’m surprised to hear you say that DOF which is tactile / tangible would be inferior to SSF but again my experience is very limited.

     

     

    #158590
    Tom
    Participant
    @armyaviation
    MemberContributor

    No ball rolling in dof… pinballs roll and they make noise.  Play one with it on ssf and you will never do without it again.  For the last 3 months I have been slowly updating all my tables with better sounds and scripts and  won’t stop until every one is done

     

    its like playing a racing game at the arcade with no engine sound.  Not very realistic

    #158593
    Rockstead
    Participant
    @rockstead

    No ball rolling in dof… pinballs roll and they make noise. Play one with it on ssf and you will never do without it again. For the last 3 months I have been slowly updating all my tables with better sounds and scripts and won’t stop until every one is done

    its like playing a racing game at the arcade with no engine sound. Not very realistic

    I get what you are saying,
    Is there a guide illustrating placement and setup of speakers? I could see how both DOF and SSF would work well together.

     

    I’m a little lost when it comes to speakers to, I mean real pinball machines have cheap sound, so typically what is the go to standard if you want to use quality speakers for the backglass, and SSF? I’m assuming they are separate systems but not really sure.

    #158626
    RustyCardores
    Moderator
    @rustycardores
    MemberModerator

    DOF and SSF work well together, as SSF fills in the blanks that contactors etc cannot provide.  Personally (and full disclosure…. I could be a little bias here as my cab is the original development cab for SSF) I would add SSF first and then add the DOF toys that SSF can’t provide later. It will make for a cheaper build and less ongoing maintenance.

    My cab has no DOF toys for feedback what so ever (just 4 exciters and two bass shakers) and any improvement for me, would honestly only come from a real shaker and a blower. Even my bells and chimes are bloody good, but they too could be a DOF thing if you wanted.

    Unlike contactors, SSF is directly associated with the position of the impact on the playfield. So for example, as bumpers change position from table to table, so does the sound and feedback. Same goes for all other playfield elements…. right down to little rollover switches going “tink”.

    While I hate directing people out of a thread, we do have a very helpful Facebook group (with many members from here) that has all the different configuration diagrams etc that need to set up effective SSF. https://www.facebook.com/groups/SSFeedback

    I should also mention that part of the SSF system is SSFImpactor.  It’s a totally optional add-on that utilises DOF to transmit sub-audible bass tones to the exciters/bass shakers for extra impact.

     

    #158640
    BorgDog
    Participant
    @borgdog
    MemberContributorvip

    So I do have to mention that SSF as much as it is lumped together is really 2 things.  There is surround sound which would give you positional SOUND for anything like Tom’s rolling balls and Rustys “tinks”.  Then there is force feedback, tactile FEELING of those sounds which is something the exciters give you over regular speakers.  you can have a full 7.1 surround sound and not have the tactile feedback, personally I don’t want to feel Tom’s balls or Rusty’s tinks (whatever those are) :scratch:

    Now contactors, or my preferred actual pinball mechs with solenoids give both sound and feeling.  While things like bumpers and such are not in the same place on every machine so the dof devices may not be an exact positional match, when you have 10 of them in your cab it is pretty reasonable approximation, and things like flippers and slings are generally pretty damn close on almost all machines.

    I currently have 6 speakers and 2 subwoofers in my cab that provides all the positional surround sound for things especially like ball rolling.  I also have 3 pop bumpers, 2 slingshots, 2 flippers, 3 cheap solenoids, 3 chimes, a 5″ bell, and a knocker in my cab for all the sound and tactile feedback for those devices, and yes all of that except the 3 cheap solenoids are actual real pinball mechs, and if I could figure out another different real mech (I’m thinking saucer kickers) to use I would get rid of the 3 cheap solenoids.  And to be honest, most pinball mechs sound pretty similar as it is really a metal plunger hitting a metal stop on all of them that makes most of the noise (except drop targets, lots of moving parts there).

    what might be fun would be to put a drop target bank in the cab and have it actually drop targets when you hit them, and reset the bank when a bank on the table resets.  I’m not sure dof could handle such a thing at the moment, and then where would you put it so it fit most tables the best, and it would certainly entail custom dof configs for every table.. whew, sounds like a lot of work.

    #158660
    Thalamus
    Moderator
    @thalamus
    ContributorMemberModerator

    So, to conclude ? ;)

    More is better. Of course, if you use real pinball parts like BorgDog or Outhere has done, then you will get even closer to the real deal than anything else. One advantage though is that SSF is easily controlled by the main volume knob if you wife or kids or dog or whatever doesn’t appreciate you staying up until early morning playing. :whistle:

    #158665
    TerryRed
    Moderator
    @terryred
    MemberContributorModerator

    I’ve had DOF first (solenoids, fan, shaker, lighting) for a few years now. I finally just added SSF in my cabinet. Both are fantastic together.

    The others have summed it up perfectly.

     

    To add my area of expertise… if you play FP or FX3:

    Pinball FX3 has “basic” SSF from using my FX3 SSF PuP-Packs and DOFLinx. This will be for the most part – flippers, slings, bumpers, drain, launch, nudge for every FX3 table. Not much more beyond that. This is a limitation from Zen’s non support for feedback…. so it’s a result of whatever DDH69 can get working.

    Future Pinball: with my new PinEvent standard, you can now have complete full SSF for FP tables using pup-ssf! This is all the same feedback from DOF and SSF you can get on VPX….. so 3d positional….ball rolling…ssf impactor…. all of it. Like VPX though, all tables need to be updated to support it. Any table I update for PinEvent will support full SSF (and DOF, Mx Leds, PuPDMD,etc). So far RetroFlair-BAM, Halloween U-Pro, and Jaws U-Pro have SSF support on FP, and it sounds and feels awesome!

     

    #158678
    Rockstead
    Participant
    @rockstead

    Great Feedback, thank you!

    Im assuming the support for DOF and SSF is good for VPX as I’m primarily interested in playing real tables that I grew up with and the others are secondary, I believe it’s VPX that have all those tables?

    You guys certainly  convinced me that it’s better to have both DOF and SSF together. Given that, if I’m looking to get the best performance for SSF, which sound configuration do you recommend? Cost isn’t a concern as I’m sure even the best quality will be relatively low in price for this type of need and space.

    Is the backglass sound independent of SSF?

    if you can please detail it for me, like this sound equipment for the backglass and this sound equipment for the playfield, would be much appreciated so I can cost it out and add it to my spreadsheet :)

     

     

     

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