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Thalamus,
what you do for the community is more important than the awards. Tell you what, don’t quit as a mod and I’ll scrap the idea. While I would have rather some opinions on how it can be changed so that the community sees the value in it, that doesn’t seem to be an option here.
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Thalamus,
what you do for the community is more important than the awards. Tell you what, don’t quit as a mod and I’ll scrap the idea. While I would have rather some opinions on how it can be changed so that the community sees the value in it, that doesn’t seem to be an option here.
Thalamus is Thalamus. Don’t worry about it, he will never change his mind, and it’s his loss and he will never know it because he refuses to play it. Fine, no worries. As a FP member, I’m use to this, makes me want to do a better game, something real special like Jungle Girl that you don’t see in vpx. For every person that hates FP, there’s a hundred that appreciate it for what it’s worth and the amount of effort put into it that myself and all the other devs of FP do. Take those odds any day of the week.
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In the end… Kenswift has nothing but the best intentions in mind. He’s a great guy with a good heart, and really honestly wanted to do something fun for the community to show his thanks to everyone.
So as he said… if there is a better way this can be done that would appease everyone… then please… politely say so…..here and now.
Myself… I think if there were no “votes” at all for pre-nominations at all at “first”…
…and the main Post was to show all the Categories, and had an actively updated “list” of ALL options for each Category shown for everyone to see (for 2020 releases / works)
…. then “everyone” from all the sites can post any options they don’t see on the list that should be added.
This can be updated each day by any new suggestions posted. This way, no one will be steered toward any specific voting options at all until after a good amount of time when all lists are considered “complete” by a specific end date.
There will be a TOP 3 for each Category btw… but the intent was to have the top 1 get a trophy while still recognizing others.
Ken is putting together a really neat presentation show for all of this. It can be real fun guys…and he want everyone to be part of it.
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1 user thanked author for this post.
That is a very different approach indeed. One that wouldn’t have pissed me off, but, I’m still not sure if the whole thing is a very good idea in the first place. People that do a lot will be left out and that isn’t good either.
Update : And that is why, I won’t participate.
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This community only needs one award. Best drama.
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Just dropped in and boy did this go sideways. We might not all be friends per-se, but damned if we don’t have a common goal.
I believe the core-takeaway here that’s been touched on is that we really need to continue under the radar. The more spotlights we shine, the more eyes look our way. Concept is fun and appreciated, but the application isn’t great.
(This also stems from my general disdain of award shows such as the Oscars, or Music Awards.)
"Fuck this game. I love it."
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Ouch! This went in the wrong direction in no time! And “we” didn’t even vote yet!
@kenswift your intentions were absolutely fine. Alot of people here would deserve more recognition! But when you read through this thread you might see where this could end. Competition seems to produce grudge and vanity.The great thing about this is the knowledge, that most people here do fine with the low amount of recognition that they got up to this point. Upload something, download something or leave a comment. That’s the core of this community.
I prefer to see a new table as a wonderfull addition to my cabinet, rather then seeing it as a table that could cost me the title.
Don’t feel pissed by what’s going on here. At the end this whole discussion could be something postive when authors can see, that recognition is not all. It’s the community who keeps this going!
Start the list from scratch, no predefined members. Make it a democratic process!
You better keep your Viking ass behind the moderator desk! The community needs you!
Happy new year!
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I’ve been silent in public on this to allow some time for this idea to settle in. My initial reaction was the same as many here, mainly due to what appeared on the initial list. But I think it’s a fun idea and if done properly, could recognize folks that really contribute to the community. My only fear, which can be easily overcome, is that long time contributors that invest 1,000’s of hours into this hobby, are not appropriately recognized.
I’ve always said and continue to maintain that I’m not here for recognition. I do this because I love it and want to share with others that love pinball. That doesn’t mean that I don’t enjoy a little recognition now and again, but it’s not my reason for being here. It also doesn’t mean that being overlooked wouldn’t be a little hurtful. It wouldn’t drive me away from this hobby though either, as long as I still enjoy it.
Regarding PUP, I don’t think it’s fair to bash it. It’s not my cup of tea, but I can clearly see that thousands of other really enjoy it. What @Nailbuster, @scottywic, and others have done is amazing. I’ve played Scotty’s tables and the rule sets, design, and music blow me away. My preference though lies in tables that I consider to be more immersive. Mechanical sounds, physics, and graphical design (shadowing, reflections, lighting, mood) are what get me excited about virtual pinball. I get really excited when I realize I’ve forgotten that I’m playing virtual pinball. I think many here probably fall into that same category, but we’re a much smaller population.
I suggest making sure there are awards that recognize both groups. For example, the following table awards would help make sure we’re not just recognizing VPX, PUP, FP, or other niche areas:
Table of the Year – include at least one from each category below
Original Table of the Year
Pinmame Recreation of the Year
EM Table of the Year
Retheme of the Year
Or something of the sort.
Current Project: Perpetual updates of VPX physics.
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I started in Virtual Pinball about a year ago. It was right around the time Scotty released Harry Potter. I had already seen his other work, as well as some  of the other amazing tables from some of the other amazing creators. I couldn’t believe that this hobby was driven solely by the sacrifices of the content creators and they get zero compensation. When I saw Harry Potter I had to send this guy Scotty Wic a nice bottle of whisky to say thank you.
Shortly after, I had come across John Memeo. John took his time to help me, as he does so many other newbies, to get my cabinet working and put me on a path to really get the most out of this new hobby. He spent hours helping answer my stupid questions and fix my stupid mistakes. I would have given up on the hobby if it wasn’t for him and I wanted to pay him back somehow.
I was familiar with After Effects and video editing and compositing and I came up with an idea to do a PuPPack. I wanted to partner with John and let him upload it as the author, as a way of paying him back. John had never done a PuPPack, but I talked him into it, and that was probably 30 puppacks ago for him. We went on to do Avengers and The Getaway II together….I wanted to pay him back and I got to.
A few months ago, I was reading about the TWIPYs. A recognition award for real pinball. I thought, wow, Virtual Pin needs an awards program like that to recognize these creators who work so hard and get so little thanks. I asked a bunch of content creators if they would be interested in participating, the ones I knew and had developed a relationship like Scotty, Terry, and Nailbuster.  I also asked some Real Pin folks, because I thought it would be cool to unify the hobby a bit, Zach Meny, Cary Hardy, and Jack Danger. All of who were great and said yes. I got MPT3K to agree to host the event on twitch and he’s a big advocate for both real pinball and virtual. I asked JP Salas and he recommended adding the major Vpin Website owners as presenters, and I thought that was a great idea. Most agreed to present as well.
I wanted it to be big but I was doing it primarily on my own and with my own money, and I knew I wanted to do it right so I allocated a budget of $1000 and came up with 10 Categories. I thought after year one we can expand to more categories and maybe people would want to contribute. I created a google form with just a few of what I felt were the most common names I heard come up as the initial Pre-Nominees, so people would understand the format I wanted but I stressed people to write in votes in both the video and the instructions because I knew I didn’t know everyone who contributes but the community does. My plan was to add in real-time as the community wrote in votes. I didn’t add any of my creations to the initial rollout either.
Rolling out the voting now feels like I lit a fuse to a massive pile of dynamite. I thought if someone didn’t agree they would give some constructive criticism and if I had to tweak I was totally open to it. I didn’t expect the response I got.  The feedback was pretty cold and harsh. If it was the community beating it up, it wouldn’t have bothered me as much but it was the creators. The ones I wanted this awards to be for.
In retrospect, if the people I wanted to recognize, think this is a bad idea, it’s not something I want to do. I think I could redo the voting but it wouldn’t matter, people would always have an issue. I can’t recognize everyone as much as I would love to but I do appreciate everything this community does. So I’m pulling the plug and wish this community the best. I took a shot because it’s who I am. Thanks Terry an anyone else who agreed with the vision as well as those who didn’t agree but understood what I was trying to do and were constructive with their feedback. Voting is turned off.
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Thanks for this note. One year into vp I had monitors spread out on the floor and was cursing. You at one year? .. have people from around the world chatting. Neat.
Revisit, and as @schreibi34 has mentioned, what’s happening here won’t last forever. A year-end retrospective framed properly is fun stuff.
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It sounds a bit like you wanted to throw a party without knowing the people you’re inviting.
I think if you want to be successful in a gig like this, you need to be sensitive about the details and read between the lines when it comes to feedback.
By details I mean you have to formulate it in a way it’s crystal clear you’re looking for nominations. If you nominate people yourself then you need to spend a lot of time finding a balanced selection, even if it’s a pre-selection. Having some of the biggest names missing is just asking for trouble.
Then part of dealing with community feedback is being able to handle harsh comments and adapt. Sometimes it’s worth digging deeper into non-constructive criticism instead of getting defensive about the form. Maybe there actually is a problem even if the person is not able or doesn’t want to elaborate on it.
But that’s only why it failed so fast, in my opinion even if you had all of the details right, it would have failed in the end, simply because building tables and providing content is not a competition. We do this out of fun, and it would have been weird “winning” an award for anything. At least that’s my personal view, and reading the comments here it seems a somewhat common sentiment.
@Thalamus and @TerryRed I’m sure you guys can get along even on the opposite side of the spectrum. Don’t let this disencourage you.Cheers!
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@Thalamus and @TerryRed I’m sure you guys can get along even on the opposite side of the spectrum. Don’t let this disencourage you.
Cheers!
No worries there dude. We’ve never gotten “that” pissed with each other. :)
If there is one thing we both have in common… is respect for works and support given to the community.
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We never got much recognition for what we do and we got used to it. To the point where we thought it might be good for staying under the radar and not make it to easy for cab sellers to fill their HDD.
Here is an example of my (and Sindbad’s) Vector table:
Vector is the table that i’m most proud of. For me personaly one of the best tables i have worked on.
Time i worked on it: ~200 hrs
Table DL’s on thise site: ~2000
Likes: 26
Thanks: 21
Positive comments (without technical questions and answers): 15
Positive comments count is minus the ones from people saying “Great table, thanks but this and that is not working, please help!”. “Great table” is just to make sure they get a quick answer.
The likes / thanks percentage is around 1% and the positive comment percentage even lower! Did i stop making tables and helping other authors out because of that? No! Because those few comments already felt great!
I really hope that this thread brings back a bit of the “good times” where leaving a comment for the authors was alot more common! I’ve seen awesome tables released the last couple of months that got pretty much ignored compared to that dozen Major League pro tables that a handfull of guys are releasing. Shame on everybody who is downloading without leaving a comment! It’s the communities fuel! Thanks to @kenswift for bringing up the subject of authors not beeing recognized. I got the feeling, that this Hobby lost more good people then it gained the last 2-3 years! Maybe it’s time for the downloaders to get more active!?
Like i said, don’t feel bad for trying something good! Dealing with the needs of hundrets of people IS frustrating!!
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I love the fuck out of Vector. I show that table off still to this day. Really pushes all the buttons of that ‘era’ of cab and artistic style.
It’s 3ft away.
I gotta play it.
"Fuck this game. I love it."
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Vector! How was this not on my cab?? Is now. …glad that got brought up.
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I am super grateful for all table creators in this community!
It is unseen to have a community like this where smart people create such fantastic content
I would say an award to each one of you.
It has given me such great entertainment this year and got me in the hobby over the last year
Thanks so much!
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