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  • #192157
    Morttis
    Participant
    @morttis

    This is a modification of the Sliderpoint table, conversion to the FSS (Full Single Screen) format by me.

    All the modification was done through Nick's guidelines (Arconovum). Thank you very much for the guide videos.

    Well, I hope you like it, you can improve it, but it's a great start to have fun in this table format.

    Obs: Lighting backglass fantasy (original is static).

    Thanks to everyone involved in creating Visual Pinball and creating the tables, without you the fun would not be the same.

    *My native language is portuguese.

    2 users thanked author for this post.
    #192178
    Sliderpoint
    Participant
    @sliderpoint
    MemberContributor

    Uhm…. it’s usually common courtesy to ask for permission from the original author before you upload a mod of their table.

    #192204
    Morttis
    Participant
    @morttis

    Uhm…. it’s usually common courtesy to ask for permission from the original author before you upload a mod of their table.

     

    Uhm…. it’s usually common courtesy to ask for permission from the original author before you upload a mod of their table.

    Good morning Sliderpoint

    I understand your criticism, but I believe that you should be happy that I am making the changes in the FSS format of a table that you created, your work is very good and certainly deserves to have FSS version for them …

    I hope that I always have all the permissions of all the authors of all the tables already created, because both the work that Nick and what I do are increasing even more the visibility of the wonderful work that you do.

    Brazilian greetings.

    Sérgio R (Morttis)

     

    #192210
    Sliderpoint
    Participant
    @sliderpoint
    MemberContributor

    Acro asks for permission. He does not just put them out.

    No you do not have blanket approval from everyone just because it’s a FSS mod.

    -Mike

    #192211
    TUTE_PRIMUS
    Participant
    @tute-primus

    Hello sorry for meddling in this matter, I do not comment much for language reasons (I speak Spanish) but this time it seems appropriate to expose my vision of the matter. For my part I think there is a misconception about the term “FSS MOD” I for I believe that it is a “Conversion” since the table is not modified, they only add backglass and other minimum adjustments (for example lighting), which do not affect the “original table”.
    To me particularly the work of Nick and Sergio seems to me magnificent since they highlight the work of the author of the table. They take the best table and convert it to FSS, if I were the author of any table I would be proud that they worked on a table of mine, since that would mean that my table is one of the best versions.
    Regarding permission, I do not think it is necessary, since they take something that is done and take it to another format. I think that just naming the author of the table would be enough.
    It’s my point of view.
    I take this opportunity to congratulate you Sliderpoint, thank you for your magnificent tables.
    And as always thank you Nick and Sergio for their work. I warmly appreciate you all

    #192214
    Morttis
    Participant
    @morttis

    Acro asks for permission. He does not just put them out.

    No you do not have blanket approval from everyone just because it’s a FSS mod.

    -Mike

    OK

    I made these tables for my personal benefit, and then I started posting so that others, likr me, like to play this table format. I will not post any more.

    Eu faço estas mesas para meu benefício próprio, e então comecei a postar aqui para outros, como eu, que gostam de jogar as mesas neste formato. Não postarei mais.

    Yo hago estas tablas para mi beneficio próprio, y empezé a publicarlas aqui para otros, como yo, les gustan jugar las mesas en este formato. No publicaré más.

    #192216
    The Loafer
    Participant
    @theloafer
    Member

    You can post them, just ask permission first.  Takes just a min and then everyone can enjoy your fine work without the drama.  At the end of the day it’s not a difficult thing to ask permission and shows proper respect. At the same time it can be very helpful to you to keep a good dialog with the author. For example, what if the author has fixed a bug in his original table?

     

    #192236
    Thalamus
    Moderator
    @thalamus
    ContributorMemberModerator

    I’m kind of sitting in the middle of this at times. Do I approve this upload or is there any issues with it. Up until now, I haven’t considered denying any of Mortiss releases. However, even though I didn’t really made Avatar from the bottom up. I was asked politely if it was ok to use my version of Frens work for FFS. Obviously, since it wasn’t my table in the first place, and blanco was given by Fren, AND since it was a very polite gesture – you can’t say no. This is a corner case, and I must admit, being here – trying to do a proper job, not rubbing people off, I will in advance say that I’m sorry if I’ve approved any of these FSS mods without permission from the creator. In this case, being that I’m not the only moderator, I don’t think I did, but, that is not the point. If for some reason the original author wants the table retracted, place tell us. We will rectify it as soon as we are aware.

    However. I do agree with Loafer (as usual ?), asking for permission will almost in all cases get an approval. It is just the feeling of getting side tracked that I believe is pissing of people, and understandable so. I want to add something while on the subject. Personally, I do, as I guess, most dabble a bit with these releases – change a few things here and there. I’m actually a bit scared of contacting the original author. You are sitting there with what you believe is a improved version, and, how are you going to address it ? We are all here because we love pinball. We’re all are a bit nuts to be honest ;) And it shows, in the way we take pride in the work we are doing. Please, ask first, again, I’m sure – if you are not a dick about it, you will get a thumbs up and a go ahead.  Now fore me to ask for approval ;)

     

    #192239
    randr
    Keymaster
    @randr
    ModeratorMember

    I believe I approved this one but on previous releases from this fss moder I did ask if he had permission to mod(May have been his first fss mod) he said yes always will have permission… so  I assumed he did. We can certainly remove the table if needed.

    ********************************************************
    Messing with the VPinball app and push notifications.
    So if you haven't downloaded app yet what are you waiting for!?
    for IOS and Android

    ********************************************************

    #192241
    Morttis
    Participant
    @morttis

    I’m kind of sitting in the middle of this at times. Do I approve this upload or is there any issues with it. Up until now, I haven’t considered denying any of Mortiss releases. However, even though I didn’t really made Avatar from the bottom up. I was asked politely if it was ok to use my version of Frens work for FFS. Obviously, since it wasn’t my table in the first place, and blanco was given by Fren, AND since it was a very polite gesture – you can’t say no. This is a corner case, and I must admit, being here – trying to do a proper job, not rubbing people off, I will in advance say that I’m sorry if I’ve approved any of these FSS mods without permission from the creator. In this case, being that I’m not the only moderator, I don’t think I did, but, that is not the point. If for some reason the original author wants the table retracted, place tell us. We will rectify it as soon as we are aware.

    However. I do agree with Loafer (as usual ?), asking for permission will almost in all cases get an approval. It is just the feeling of getting side tracked that I believe is pissing of people, and understandable so. I want to add something while on the subject. Personally, I do, as I guess, most dabble a bit with these releases – change a few things here and there. I’m actually a bit scared of contacting the original author. You are sitting there with what you believe is a improved version, and, how are you going to address it ? We are all here because we love pinball. We’re all are a bit nuts to be honest ;) And it shows, in the way we take pride in the work we are doing. Please, ask first, again, I’m sure – if you are not a dick about it, you will get a thumbs up and a go ahead. Now fore me to ask for approval ;)

    Hi Thalamus, I will write in Portuguese, please use the translator to understand, it’ll make it easier for me to express what I think about all this.

    Bom, eu estou editando estas mesas FSS MOD a pouco mais de 1 mês, e já fiz 34 mesas, aqui já postei 33 mesas, entendo que não pedi “permissão” para ninguém para fazer isso, e sinceramente não vejo isso como uma necessidade tendo em vista que escrevo que a mesa original foi criado pelo autor. Mas enfim, entendo o “ego” que muitos tem em serem os “detentores do direito” sobre a elaboração de uma mesa. Sei da complexidade de criar essas mesas, enfim, estou fazendo uma pequena parte destas modificações, que são adequações para o formato FSS.

    Não quero arrumar problemas com os autores que não querem que “suas mesas” sejam modificadas da FSS, mas sinceramente eu não vou ficar procurando autores para pedir permissão para utilização de sua referida mesa. (Isso é um gigantesco Ego…. fui editor de patchs de Pro Evolution Soccer e os uniformes, bolas, estádios, gritos de torcida, que fiz correram o mundo, se eu me preocupasse com cada equipe de patch pedir minha permissão para usar, muitos dos Patchs Classicos poderiam nem existir).

    Se querem tirar a mesa FSS MOD do site, tudo bem, sem problemas, só estou ajudando a outros usuários que queiram jogar as mesas neste formato, que por sinal ficam ótimas. Entendo que muitos não vão jogar essas mesas pois possuem setups com 2 ou 3 monitores, mas para usuários que possuem 1 monitor o formato FSS é ótimo.

    Enfim, se vocês querem que eu ainda poste as mesas que “modifico para mim” no VPINBALL me informem que continuarei postando, se a moderação quer pedir as “permissões” antes de postar também fiquem a vontade, mas sinceramente eu não vou ficar caçando autores para pedir “permissão” para fazer algo que seguramente agrega muito ao site.  (existem  autores que não postam nada aqui, existem autores que não postam a mais de 2 anos aqui).

    Jogo pinball original a mais de 30 anos, jogo pinball virtual a mais de 10 anos, e tenho certeza que as FSS MOD farão a felicidade de uma parcela de pessoas que tem setup com apenas 1 tela.

    PS: se ainda quer que eu poste minhas modificações, me informem (via chat mesmo), postarei e a moderação pode correr atrás do autor, pedindo permissão, antes de dar ok na publicação… caso não de permissão, continuo usando apenas eu a referida mesa.

    Bom, é isso…grande abraço…

    Até logo

    Morttis

     

    #192260
    Thalamus
    Moderator
    @thalamus
    ContributorMemberModerator

    Well. Reading your answer. I’m sorry to say. I can’t approve any of your mods anymore, since you say that you won’t be bothered to ask the author. You mention authors not being online for 2 years. I don’t know of whom you are referring to. ICP ? He is still around, just not releasing anything new. Dozer ? He is still logging in too. If the author truly has abandoned vp, then of course, permission can’t be obtained and it is ok after such a long time.

    #192266
    The Loafer
    Participant
    @theloafer
    Member

    I think you are doing excellent work Morttis, just excellent.  In saying that, I will never, ever understand how someone can spend several hours working in the editor to fix/update a table but not spend 2 min to send a note to the author.  I mean you have to download the table, the author contact option (PM) is right there, so click, send a note and then you are done.

     

    I do understand your reference to contributions to ProEvoSoccer, so I get your position and personal philosophy and on a certain level, I share it.  I mean, in a perfect world, these types of communities work best in an atmosphere of sharing completely and freely.

     

    But there are differences not so subtle with this community versus others.  Where quite a few people just see EGO as the problem holding mods back, others look a little closer and see something else.  For example, some of these stellar VPX releases don’t take 1 or 2 hours, nor dozens but hundreds of hours that encompass everything from sorting out the art assets (which sometimes means spending $$$ to acquire them), rendering them, recording audio, building the table in 3D for accuracy, adjusting the physics infinitum and testing, testing, testing.  When you spend time like that, it is IMPOSSIBLE not to feel a sense of ownership on the work performed, and with it some sense to protect that work.

     

    Even with that in mind, we still see that the majority of the authors don’t want full control, they just want their efforts acknowledged via a simple little request.  Sometimes as I stated earlier, that’s beneficial.  For example, I saw a VR Room release recently where after it was released, I think a week later an update to the original table came out with some substantial improvements.  Would it not have been good if a dialog had taken place (I’m assuming here there wasn’t and it might not have been required if “no permission to mod required” was detailed in the original table thread but … for the sake of the example let’s run with it) and with that a message stating “wait before you work on this table, I’ve got an update coming”

     

    nothing is ever so easy.  All I know is you are providing a very good service, would be a shame if you feel it’s not worth your time because of what you feel is an ego issue where maybe, if you look a little closer, you will see it’s more politeness than anything else.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #192281
    LynnInDenver
    Participant
    @lynnindenver
    Member

    I would agree with Thalamus here… since you’re saying you won’t take the time to ask for permission, then clearly you’re not doing the work to justify the privilege of having your uploads approved in the future. And again, it’s not an ego thing, it’s being polite. The work you’re bringing to the table isn’t all that important overall, since it’s just a hobby.

    You’re at least the third person to basically come out and say, “getting permission and giving credit shouldn’t matter” in some fashion (actions or words) in the past six months. And yet, it does matter. Not only are we at risk of losing another author (and potentially having them pull their downloads down) because of this sort of frankly disrespectful attitude, I’m certain that we’re also now at the significant risk of losing at least one author who’s work we haven’t yet seen because they figure, “what’s the point, with these disrespectful sorts coming into the scene now?” It’s a hobby, and it’s not worth dealing with disrespectful folks while pursuing a hobby.

    Creator of the first PinupPlayer PostDMD mods for VPX - PostDMD for Masters of the Universe VPX and Jaws VPX.
    Head Proprietor of Pisces Pinball, a VPX table developer.
    Lead Technician of MC Chase Amusements, a private arcade in our home basement.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #192287
    Morttis
    Participant
    @morttis

    Well. Reading your answer. I’m sorry to say. I can’t approve any of your mods anymore, since you say that you won’t be bothered to ask the author. You mention authors not being online for 2 years. I don’t know of whom you are referring to. ICP ? He is still around, just not releasing anything new. Dozer ? He is still logging in too. If the author truly has abandoned vp, then of course, permission can’t be obtained and it is ok after such a long time.

     

    Thalamus, please use the translator. Thank you.

    Bom, apesar de não concordar com tudo isso, vou mandar uma mensagem para os autores que já fiz mods de suas mesas.
    O que não quero é ver as pessoas que, assim como eu, gostam das versões FSS, ficarem sem novos “lançamentos”.
    Sobre eles aprovarem ou retornarem minhas mensagens de “permissão”, sinceramente não sei… mas torço para que o façam.

    Sobre não ser respeitoso com os autores, não é isso, sei do desgaste, custos envolvidos e tudo mais, estou levando horas e horas para fazer o que faço com as FSS, e o trabalho não é nem 1/10 do trabalho do criador da mesa… em respeito ao Arconovum (Nick) também seguirei fazendo as mesas FSS… mandarei as solicitações de permissão por aqui (via Chat)… espero que respondam….

    Varias mesas peguei no VPForum, outras no VPUniverse… mas se achar o autor por aqui mandarei a mensagem por aqui.
    Não quero ser taxado como sendo uma pessoa desrespeitosa, pois não sou. Quem me conhece sabe disso, realmente não quero ser taxado como desrespeitoso.

    Bom, até mais.

    Morttis

     

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by Morttis.
    #192313
    Morttis
    Participant
    @morttis

    Well, I already sent all requests for the 33 FSS MOD tables that I posted on VPinBall, including one to Requiem (Nascar author) that I didn’t find here on VPinBall, but sent on vpForum. I even sent one to you Thalamus, because you are the author of Avatar.

    #192324
    DJRobX
    Moderator
    @djrobx
    MemberModerator

    I can confirm I received a request to approve Wheel Of Fortune, which I happily gave.   Thanks for doing these conversions, Morttis.

    #192362
    Thalamus
    Moderator
    @thalamus
    ContributorMemberModerator

    Yes. I’ve received the request and it is approved, but, I’m not really the author of Avatar. But, that is ok too since Fren gave permission to re-use his work to everyone. I’ve read your post, and if you upload tables where you’ve got a answer saying it is ok, you are of course very welcome to do so. For those that you don’t hear from the author. Please contact any of the moderators or randr, and ask. It might very well be that we will approve based on time passed since we hear from the original author. I just don’t want to be put in a position where I approved something that I shouldn’t. I’m sure you understand.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by Thalamus.
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