This topic contains 60 replies, has 24 voices, and was last updated by  Bladeof 1 month ago.

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  • #137331
     bord 
    Participant
    MembervipContributor

    Take a look:

    https://www.vpforums.org/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=14292

    https://vpinball.com/VPBdownloads/dracula-stern-1979/

    Content from this site uploaded at vpforums without my permission.

    @bigus1, I’m an easygoing guy. I’ve never denied anyone permission to mod. I’ve spent some time encouraging you to title your mods correctly (like adding [mod] to the titles and not iterating your versions based on someone else’s release version i.e. you naming your file 1.3 if my file was 1.2, which implies that yours is an official extension of my project). But taking my work and uploading it to another site without permission is a breach of community standards where I’m concerned.

    @randr, @thalamus, please take a look at his other uploads here and make sure they are legit.

    Mods are awesome and a great part of this community. This is not modding.

    #137333
     randr 
    Keymaster
    ModeratorMember

    @bord I didn’t approve any of these but I fully trust thalamus and his decisions. I did ask thalamus if these are worthy of a “release” in chat but never heard back from him and then seen a few approved so I assume he feels the few he did approve are mods enough?

    As most know I’m not a huge mod fan for a new release but prefer working with original author to improve a table already released with new versions rather then a mod. :(

    ********************************************************
    Messing with the VPinball app and push notifications.
    So if you haven't downloaded app yet what are you waiting for!?
    *******************************************************

    #137335
     Thalamus 
    Moderator
    ContributorMemberModerator

    Yeah. I saw that he mentioned over at VPF. Said Dracula which meant either yelling from ICP or what I now see. I’m sorry. Out of my hands. I was a bit too eager on the trigger for Volcano. I of course accepted Avatar and I also accepted Defender. The description  pointed in the direction of a re-build. I might be wrong about that, and if so, then I’m sorry. The rest I’m not sure about. Carny mentioned a few guys and I think he is right on those. Seems JPSalas has the Cue ball wizard. His logo at the plunger. Asked him over at VPF to give better description to where the tables come from before I at least will consider approving any one else.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #137341
     bord 
    Participant
    MembervipContributor

    I know this isn’t on you guys, just a heads up in case the others are problematic and a public call-out for bad behavior.

    I can’t even defend Dracula – sorely needs an update – but certainly didn’t expect it to show up on another site and with what appears to be an hour’s worth of work applied if I’m being generous.

    #137345
     TerryRed 
    Moderator
    MemberContributorModerator

    Yah, it’s one of the unspoken rules / community things that some people may not realize. I know that may sound silly to you guys, but you have been doing this for many years and noobs are not accustomed to the VP “community” rules of respect when it comes to changing / modding someone else’s works and sharing it elsewhere. Some just think if it’s released then I can do what I want with it, etc. Others are simply a little naive about all this, and haven’t had much experience with the history and drama from all the different sites.

    I use my own experience. I was the first tester of PuP, and create the first experience with it when I tried modding ICP’s Tron Legacy with the first PuP-Edition. I didn’t intend to make it a full mod as we were breaking new ground and I was doing stuff with PuP for the first time. Well that turned out to be a big deal, and I ended up doing a table mod….but only by adding PuP support to the table, nothing else.

    In my excitement, I released Tron Legacy PuP-Edition…without even thinking. When I did my demo video…the focus was about PuP…and I didn’t even mention who created the VP table, etc. I also shared the table elsewhere hoping to share the breakthrough we had done with VP.

    Well ICP (who I had never talked to before) was supper bummed about him not being mentioned in the video. He also told me he didn’t want any of his tables shared anywhere except VPinball. I felt like crap. It didn’t even think about asking him permission to mod, let alone share the table.

    From that point on I had a much better understanding about respect and consideration for an author’s work.

    That said….I saw no indication about ICP not wanting his works shared anywhere else except VPinball on his downloads, so I had no way of knowing. When an author is inactive for a long time…. new users have no knowledge of the author’s wishes.

     

    So, in short…if you don’t want your stuff modded or shard elsewhere…at least mention that disclaimer in your downloads… for all the good noobs out there who want to do the right thing.

    #137348
     NailBuster 
    Moderator
    ModeratorMember

    would also suggest (if not done already)  that all table authors “wishes” should be clearly stated in comments at the start/header of every table script.

    people may grab files from sites and not remember where, who..etc.   commented top lines of table script files make it clear if/who/what and where the current table can be used.  as well an email address if permission is required.

     

     

     

     

     

    #137349
     TerryRed 
    Moderator
    MemberContributorModerator

    Yes… I am a big fan of lots of “details” and info on the Table script top description.

    #137350
     randr 
    Keymaster
    ModeratorMember

    I removed all these “mods” if people like them then get them on vpf. Very sorry for the mess guys but hard to say no sometimes when people think they are doing good.

    ********************************************************
    Messing with the VPinball app and push notifications.
    So if you haven't downloaded app yet what are you waiting for!?
    *******************************************************

    #137353
     bord 
    Participant
    MembervipContributor

    Well, that’s a hard no: https://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=42527#entry431769

    Ah well, if anyone wants a better version of one of my projects you know where to get it: not here. I’ll take this one for the team and toughen up my permission to mod language going forward.

    #137357
     Gwen 
    Participant
    Member

    And Noah’s statement… hmm

    Gwen
    - wonky builder of the steampunk-y Nikola Tesla cabinet.

    #137358
     randr 
    Keymaster
    ModeratorMember

    Wow is Paul in another world! i really think he needs to open his eyes and look at a recent VP build! CRAZY stuff.  :wacko:

    ********************************************************
    Messing with the VPinball app and push notifications.
    So if you haven't downloaded app yet what are you waiting for!?
    *******************************************************

    #137361
     Dark 
    Participant
    vipMemberContributor

    Yeah so what was I to understand from Paul’s rant? That because some shady people have shared vpf content without permission on other sites without him ‘bitching’ that should make it okay for him to host content where permission wasn’t granted?

    3dcreation

    #137367
     LynnInDenver 
    Participant
    Member

    Yeah, I kind of read his screed. It also almost implied that we really just need to be posting our tables on his site, full stop, like we “owe” because of his contributions to the community. I understand that’s actually a condition of releasing a mod for JPSalas’s tables, that it must be done on VPF. Paul really needs to take about 60-90 minutes after writing a post, and then reviewing, and having an employee review it, THEN post it, in order to make sure the intent is clear, because I got the impression of severe entitlement.

    If he honestly would like some of us to actually post more tables, maybe he should work on getting more people into the moderation queue to approve uploads.

    Creator of the first PinupPlayer PostDMD mods for VPX - PostDMD for Masters of the Universe VPX and Jaws VPX.
    Head Proprietor of Pisces Pinball, a VPX table developer.
    Lead Technician of MC Chase Amusements, a private arcade in our home basement.

    #137369
     randr 
    Keymaster
    ModeratorMember

    I think people like Dark, Bord, Borgdog, Flupper, JP, Bodydump, Rascal, 32assian, Roth, Toxie, Fuzzel, Rob TO NAME ONLY A FEW have contributed way more then Paul ever has and they do it for no PROFIT! Paul is so busy selling cabs he has no time for his site then something is VERY wrong with that picture! The biggest offender is VPF but yet he has the right to do what he does because he is VPF the “official” site of visual pinball? i just threw up in my mouth! twice!

    I will close this site right now if majority of the community would rather line pockets of one guy on VPF so just let me know and someone else can try to make this hobby a hobby again like i have tried to do

    ********************************************************
    Messing with the VPinball app and push notifications.
    So if you haven't downloaded app yet what are you waiting for!?
    *******************************************************

    #137370
     Dark 
    Participant
    vipMemberContributor

    Once upon a time JPsalas was the first and foremost name in visual pinball recreations, his photoshop skills brought vp8 and vp9 tables to life like no one else was doing.  Anyone who has any kind of history in the community has a huge amount of respect for JP.  Even though JP is ‘retired’ he still makes the odd table and we’re grateful for it,  Paul makes it sound like he owns JPSalas and all his work.  This attitude doesn’t really surprise me, if any of you have uploaded content to vpf you may have noticed anything you’ve uploaded cannot be removed.

    If JPS ever requested a table taken down here, I’m more than confident vpinball would oblige, so this argument is just bogus.

    3dcreation

    #137371
     Dark 
    Participant
    vipMemberContributor

    I think people like Dark, Bord, Borgdog, Flupper, JP, Bodydump, Rascal, 32assian, Roth, Toxie, Fuzzel, Rob TO NAME ONLY A FEW have contributed way more then Paul ever has and they do it for no PROFIT! Paul is so busy selling cabs he has no time for his site then something is VERY wrong with that picture! The biggest offender is VPF but yet he has the right to do what he does because he is VPF the “official” site of visual pinball? i just threw up in my mouth! twice!

    I will close this site right now if majority of the community would rather line pockets of one guy on VPF so just let me know and someone else can try to make this hobby a hobby again like i have tried to do

    Paul is just resentful because he had everything under one roof, his roof, and had the #1 table builder in his pocket but gone are the glory days with so many exclusive downloads from vpu and here from contributors who just don’t want anything to do with Paul and his bullshit any more.  Any time I’ve ever seen one of those virtua pin’s at an arcade shop they always seemed like over priced trash and with so many complaints on plungers (maybe they’re better now I don’t know). Also not to mention the chinese cabs that are being pumped out are probably as good or better quality for less money, I wouldn’t be surprised if his virtua pin business isn’t as lucrative as it once was and he blames ‘other sites’ for this.

    I’m sure some people have had positive experiences with Paul, but I know enough people who have had off-putting experiences with him and it’s the sort of thing that made this site happen, a free reliable, safe place to share content without worry of it not being respectful.

    This site isn’t focused on selling anything, it’s focused on the contributors and the community, this site has cost money, not made money.

    3dcreation

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  Dark.
    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #137373
     Drybonz 
    Participant
    Member

    I think that’s one of the big reasons many of us are here… it’s really nice that we have some place to go besides VPF… not to mention this place is better in just about every other way as well.

    #137374
     robertms 
    Participant
    Member

    This site isn’t focused on selling anything, it’s focused on the contributors and the community, this site has cost money, not made money.

    Amen.

    #137383
     shiva 
    Participant

    I am very sorry for you Bord what has happened. I had this happen myself, several times, with the last time Noah actually removing my credit for Rapid Vienna because I refused to be blackmailed in uploading my tables to vpf  just to get proper credit (and my legal copyright put back in the script, but then I decided to not legally pursue that)

     

    As you know I have had to deal with this more than anyone else. If you do not put a legal statement in your script, you have no protection for your intellectual rights. If someone does mod your work with this copyright, you have a legal basis to have it removed. I have put a copyright in my tables for years, and submitting the code here. I also put the creative commons image in as well. Here’s the code I use for fpxEngine:

    ‘ *********************************************************************
    ‘ fpx Engine
    ‘ by
    ‘ (C) 2019 shiva
    ‘ *********************************************************************
    ‘ fpx Engine Template by shiva, is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License.
    ‘ All custom table graphics are completely redrawn work and not part of the original artwork
    ‘ All other copyrights held by the original holders
    ‘ Permissions may be sought at http://www.gopinball.com
    ‘ Additional Script components By popotte. Gimli, GeorgeH, Ravacade, Smoke, and others
    ‘ Additional Model componets by HappyCab, popotte, and Fransico
    ‘ Future Pinball by Black
    ‘ BAM by Ravacade
    ‘ This copyright must be included with all public copies using the fpxEngine

    ‘ Terms Of Use
    ‘ THE WORK (AS DEFINED BELOW) IS PROVIDED UNDER THE TERMS OF THIS CREATIVE COMMONS PUBLIC LICENSE (“CCPL” OR “LICENSE”).
    ‘ THE WORK IS PROTECTED BY COPYRIGHT AND/OR OTHER APPLICABLE LAW.
    ‘ ANY USE OF THE WORK OTHER THAN AS AUTHORIZED UNDER THIS LICENSE OR COPYRIGHT LAW IS PROHIBITED.

    ‘ Under the following conditions:

    ‘ Attribution — You must attribute the work in the manner specified by the author or licensor (but not in any way that suggests that they endorse you or your use of the work).
    ‘ Noncommercial — You may not use this work for commercial purposes.
    ‘ Derivative Works — You may alter, transform, or build upon this work, with the understanding that any changes may be placed in the next official update to the FPX Template

    ‘ With the understanding that:

    ‘ Waiver — Any of the above conditions can be waived if you get permission from the copyright holder.

    You may want to research this further, but by including this copyright, you have the legal right to pursue and even have charged if no proper resolution has been made.

    In my case, I decided to not take action, I just quit the community and joined the FP community instead.  Noahs comments just twist my stomach, how things have gone, and he seems to think he owns everything. He doesn’t. He is responsible for the VP community fracturing, and I do not like his actions in the slightest and consider him to be extremely untrustworthy. I feel a lot of people here feel the same, which is the main reason why this site is doing so well.

    Again, sorry Bord. It’s hard for people to understand who people who have this happen feels, unless it’s by someone who has already gone through the same thing.

    _____________________________________

    Latest projects and rants at My Facebook Page
    _____________________________________
    Latest Project: fpxEngine Beginners Template

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  shiva.
    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #137388
     randr 
    Keymaster
    ModeratorMember

    @shiva thank you so much for this comment and everything you have done. You could not have said it better and I think EVERYONE that has submitted a table should include your example in their script.

     

    ********************************************************
    Messing with the VPinball app and push notifications.
    So if you haven't downloaded app yet what are you waiting for!?
    *******************************************************

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