This topic contains 142 replies, has 67 voices, and was last updated by  bord 1 week, 3 days ago.

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Viewing 20 posts - 101 through 120 (of 143 total)
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  • #125833
     The Loafer 
    Participant
    Member

    On the difficulty subject , I’ll restate it again:  We have a lot of great authors in this hobby and Bord is one of the best.  he truly gets what makes pinball the wonderful game it is.

     

    If anyone disagrees and believes the table should be easier, please consider the reasons WHY its difficult.

    For those unaware, no one intentionally sets out to piss people off. The design of the table is made for us to spend quarters but also to highlight certain parts of the tables, with some that specifically aim at making you lose your ball.  So a history lesson is in order:

    – outlanes are bad, keep the ball as far away from the Outlanes as possible

    – slingshots are bad, keep the ball as far away from them as possible.

    – center targets that entice you?  Those are designed that if you hit them wrong, plunk, SDTM it goes

    – ramps have post protectors on either side.  But.. those posts also deaden the ball or will cause it to go off in unpredictable angles.  So if it’s a ramp shot close to the middle guess what?  Either a missed shot goes STDM OR it heads towards the slings which can result in the ball heading towards the outlane.

     

    For sure, some games the pin owns you.  BUT, when you get in the zone, when you get on a roll and end up hearing a couple of knocker sound effects, when you target getting the extra ball and you get it, then you feel rewarded.  Strangely enough, just about every table from Bord frustrates me when I have a few straight to the outlanes or SDTM shots but then boom, everything falls into place and the euphoric feeling is real.  Yes, the exact same feeling is felt as when I’m playing a real pin.

    The best compliment I can give Bord?  When I play some of his tables, I have to use the exact same technique that is required to beat the table by the pros.  If I don’t, the table usually kicks my ass.  If I use the proper technique, then I have a decent chance to kick it’s ass…

    … at least once in a while :)

     

    great job,  thanks Bord!

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #125868
     bord 
    Participant
    MembervipContributor

    That is all terribly flattering. Thank you.

    Rob, you really nailed my litmus test for knowing physics are right for a game. There is so much trial and error. I bet I played 600+ games of Pin Bot during development, the whole time looking for stuff that looks improbable in real pinball but even moreso for that one particular feeling, the rush you get from knowing that you are succeeding at beating back a formidable foe. If the balance between difficulty and success is out of whack you just never get the feeling. Test and test and test and all of a sudden you find yourself smiling and unable to resist starting another game. Then you’re getting close.

    It is totally subjective, of course and I think a lot of it relies on how much real pinball you play. I get the sense that the majority of the VP bystanders don’t play a whole lot of real pinball or only play a specific era of real pinball. That subset of the community will be looking for a totally different thing than what I’m chasing and that’s cool. Plenty of super-easy VP games out there.

    If you’ll permit me one last bit of verbosity before I crawl back behind my keyboard and keep building games, I think a lot about why pinball is so appealing. To me pinball is a micro existential drama played out with every game. In contrast to video gaming where there is a possible victorious conclusion, a game of pinball is a tiny chance to confront your latent existential dread, actively keep it at bay for a time, and then, true to real life, succumb to it – but with a chance to confront and delay the inevitable even better with your next game. If that manifestation of existential struggle isn’t there the game no longer hits the same nerve. It’s so cathartic to confront an unbeatable foe and learn to enjoy the challenge of it despite the fact that you can’t win in the end.

    That was over the top, wasn’t it? Haha. Game on.

    2 users thanked author for this post.
    #125873
     The Loafer 
    Participant
    Member

    No, that was pretty bang on, you are an excellent writer, totally get what you are saying!  First and foremost to me, it’s the skillset used to play pinball. With Videogames of course skill matters but videogames is very much the Wizard behind the curtain, always with someone directing you to the end goal.  There is very little “random” when playing a video game.  With pinball it’s skill vs physics vs ruleset and boom, out you go, try and beat it.  I find that incredibly alluring and ultimately addictive like no other “game”, with I guess VR coming in close if only because it helps blends gaming/experience and life a lot more because of the emersion factor. IE: we are fooled a bit more than standard gaming.

     

    With video game pinball, it’s not quite as fantastic as real pinball but it’s really come a long way and a finally tuned table definitely hits the same emotional experience as the real thing and in fact on occasion fools me.  I mean, the physics and the ball weight and the randomness isn’t quite like real pinball but when tuned well, the negatives fades away and only the gameplay and experience remains.

    Now we can go back to the regularly scheduled thread :)

     

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #125875
     rothbauerw 
    Participant
    ContributorMembervip

    @bord and @theloafer

    You guys get me  :heart:   :rose:   :heart:

    Current Project: Perpetual updates of VPX physics.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #125890
     Draifet 
    Participant
    Member

    Easy is boring, u get a mega score on the few first games, beating all the objectives that the table have to offer and that’s it, no more motivation to play again and improve your latest score. On easy tables I only enjoy the tables from a technical point of view, but I usually press the exit button before ending the game, when I want to have fun with virtual pinball, I play only the ones that make u scream when the ball sneaks malevolently by the middle of the flippers or the side drains, and bord never disappoints.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #125922
     Thalamus 
    Moderator
    ContributorMemberModerator

    Thanks for the update @bord

    #126450
     Scooby 
    Participant
    Member

    Thanks again Bord for this fun table and thanks to Carney for the updated VPM build over at VPU. FastFlips is working great on this table!

    #126451
     Thalamus 
    Moderator
    ContributorMemberModerator

    A mention of DjRobX would be nice as he is the guy that actually made it possible.

    #126608
     Scooby 
    Participant
    Member

    I thanked DjRob on the the VPU thread, but I see I forgot to do so here as well. Thanks again, Rob!

    #126611
     bord 
    Participant
    MembervipContributor

    Woot, @djrobx!

    #126616
     DJRobX 
    Moderator
    MemberModerator

    Thanks guys!

    I don’t think this table is too hard, I would say it’s exactly like the real thing

    At the risk of sounding like a broken record, it’s important to keep in mind that real tables, especially of this vintage, all play differently, so different people may have different perspectives on what “the real thing” plays like.

    I remember playing a row of brand new, out of the box Stern Star Wars machines, and even some of those played differently.  One of them in particular, everyone kept commenting about how much more difficult it was than the others.      Maybe it wasn’t leveled quite the same or something, but point is there may not be one “true” answer about how this is supposed to play.

    Jack Bot plays fairly to me.   The kickout from the upper left saucer sometimes drains on exit which seems kind of evil, but according to Bowen Kerins “it happens a lot” on a real table, so it’s probably accurate.   The good news is in vp land you can probably fix it by finessing some numbers in the script if you really hate it.  :)

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #126618
     DJRobX 
    Moderator
    MemberModerator

    Awesome work! Love this series! I too get some small stutters during multiball and jackpot. Other than that, no problems. GREAT release

    I’ve seen that once in a while and I’m on an RTX2080, so it should chew through anything. In the script we flash everything once at load to cache all the flasher stuff being used so it won’t bog down at a major flasher event. Not really sure what else to do to minimize the stutter.

    The “other” major cause of stutter if it’s not your video card, is the collision engine which needs CPU.   I have a suspicion that the new technique of using a primitive PF is introducing some new stutter choke points.  I see it a lot on the new TAF.

    #126762
     Mark70 
    Participant
    Member

    Thanks guys!

    I don’t think this table is too hard, I would say it’s exactly like the real thing

    At the risk of sounding like a broken record, it’s important to keep in mind that real tables, especially of this vintage, all play differently, so different people may have different perspectives on what “the real thing” plays like.

    I remember playing a row of brand new, out of the box Stern Star Wars machines, and even some of those played differently.  One of them in particular, everyone kept commenting about how much more difficult it was than the others.      Maybe it wasn’t leveled quite the same or something, but point is there may not be one “true” answer about how this is supposed to play.

    Jack Bot plays fairly to me.   The kickout from the upper left saucer sometimes drains on exit which seems kind of evil, but according to Bowen Kerins “it happens a lot” on a real table, so it’s probably accurate.   The good news is in vp land you can probably fix it by finessing some numbers in the script if you really hate it.  :)

    True, I should have add that the table I was reffering to was well maintained, prober leveled, with a fresh set of rubbers and new flipper coils.
    But even then, I have also played two brand new machines of the same game which did not feel the same.  So you are right.

    Btw. Thanks for making Fast Flips possible

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    I am looking for T2 cabinet decals, please send pm for offers.
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    #126951
     hatred69 
    Participant

    I just wanted to pass this comment on to you because if i was involved in making this table i would want to hear it.  I had an old friend come by today, and although he has seen my cab about a year or so ago, he had never seen YOUR table on my cab.  I let him play for about 10 minutes, and when done he turned to me and asked me honestly, So there is no ball in there AT ALL?

    When i answered no, he was gobsmacked.  He proceeded to ask me if i had updated the table since last he had seen it, i answered nope except for the Pin Bot table.  Not sure if there is a better compliment about your tables physics that that my friend,  so enjoy and of course thank you thank you thank you.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #129506
     L0stS0ul 
    Participant

    I got to play a real Jack*Bot yesterday and I have to give some major props. The virtual table plays very true to life. If anything the real table is a bit easier to play.

    This table has become one of our favorites to play on the vpin. Thanks!

    IMG_20190525_142606628

     

     

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #132552
     jamal1234 
    Participant

    I still cannot get enough of this table, countless hours of fun!  Thanks bord!   :good:

    Untitled

    #133226
     Mark70 
    Participant
    Member

    After more then three hours of fun playing Jack*Bot, I thought I’d grab a cold beer and say cheers! Bord and all Jack*Bot friends.

     

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    I am looking for T2 cabinet decals, please send pm for offers.
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    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #133227
     bord 
    Participant
    MembervipContributor

    After more then three hours of fun playing Jack*Bot, I thought I’d grab a cold beer and say cheers! Bord and all Jack*Bot friends.

     

    Cheers! Feels good to find a game you like and really dig in, doesn’t it? I don’t do that often enough.

    #133300
     Torre 
    Participant

    Just WOW! What a beauty! Big thank you to you and the hard working team! Can’t wait to try it out!

    The flippers don’t work for me either  :unsure:

    Mark

    #133301
     bord 
    Participant
    MembervipContributor

    Requires 10.6.

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