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Hey guys, I’m planning out my first cab and had a question about adding SSF.
I have a pair of Creative Labs Gigaworks T40 II 2.0 speakers for the music/backglass.
I’m thinking of using Dayton BST-1 bass shakers for the feedback along with the Lepy-838 2.1 amps. Would I use these as left/right speakers with the 2.1 amps, or would I be better served with a pair of Dayton DAEX25 exciters using left/right and the BST-1’s using the amp’s bass input? I’d like to make sure I “feel” the flippers and bumpers/slingshots without needing solenoids as best I can.
Thanks for any help!
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Since I don’t own bass shakers, I can’t really give you a answer to your question directly. Just know that I’ve got 3 amps. One amp is controlling left/right backglass and main sub. The other pair is controlling one pair of exciters placed somewhat near the backglass and the other pair near the flippers. I have no problems changing the sounds samples for the table to feel the bumpers if that is my goal. Since my DOF is broken, I’m kind of forced to play using only sound and I’m happy with that. My wife is too, I just turn the global volume down if she goes to bed via PinVol. Of course, I don’t feel the feedback the same way then, but, I surely do when I have friends over and we’re drinking beers and having fun competing. If we are getting too excited, turning the global volume up too far, well, then I can end up seeing the ball jump on its own a bit, especially for tables like AC/DC. It is all just a question about adjusting values and limits to how you want the pin to play/sound.
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Since I don’t own bass shakers, I can’t really give you a answer to your question directly. Just know that I’ve got 3 amps. One amp is controlling left/right backglass and main sub. The other pair is controlling one pair of exciters placed somewhat near the backglass and the other pair near the flippers. I have no problems changing the sounds samples for the table to feel the bumpers if that is my goal. Since my DOF is broken, I’m kind of forced to play using only sound and I’m happy with that. My wife is too, I just turn the global volume down if she goes to bed via PinVol. Of course, I don’t feel the feedback the same way then, but, I surely do when I have friends over and we’re drinking beers and having fun competing. If we are getting too excited, turning the global volume up too far, well, then I can end up seeing the ball jump on its own a bit, especially for tables like AC/DC. It is all just a question about adjusting values and limits to how you want the pin to play/sound.
Thanks for the response! So if I had your setup, my question is how do you think it would go if I swapped those exciters for the BST-1 shakers? Would I still be able to hear the “mechanical” audio sounds out of the shakers with just some extra oomph for feedback over the exciters? Or would those just give off bass rumble and no audio? Perhaps my confusion is over the difference between how exciters and bass shakers compare…
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No idea. No experience with those and I don’t see me adding them down the line to the cab either. I have more bass than I need, and as I said, I have no problems getting the feedback that suits me from my current setup.
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No idea. No experience with those and I don’t see me adding them down the line to the cab either. I have more bass than I need, and as I said, I have no problems getting the feedback that suits me from my current setup.
Gotcha… What exciters are you using if you don’t mind me asking?
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The BST-1 is for the thump only (hence name bass shaker), you won’t hear the higher frequency mechanical sounds though or even most of the low frequency unless its enhanced by SSF Thump (which I haven’t used yet) or augmented with SSFImpactor (see my thread describing journey getting that up to snuff).
My setup matches the recommended setup for SSFImpactor. You use a total of three 2.1 amps:
1 for your backbox speakers and audio subwoofer
1 for your side (aka rear center) surround sound (rear of your cabinet), 2 DAEX25 exciters and BST-1 bass shaker
1 for your rear surround sound (front of your cabinet), 2 DAEX25 exciters and TT25-8 tactile transducerDifference between tactile transducer and bass shaker? No idea technically, but the practical difference in this case is the TT25-8 has less thump which is a nice option for effects that don’t need to shake the table apart. You could use a second BST-1 instead.
Its nice to use a 2.1 amp with an independent bass volume (see my thread about the Lepai 2.1 amp) for this.
With this setup and basic SSF you get nice positional sound and if you increase the bass on the amp and/or use EqualizerAPO to enhance the bass of the mechanical sounds you feel some tactile feedback. But you can do more. I haven’t tried it yet but SSF Thump manages some EqualizerAPO presets to feed bass to the shakers where you can really feel it. Another option is SSFImpactor which requires you to setup DOF and it augments the mechanical sounds by playing low frequency effects to the bass shakers. This is what I have been playing with and I am trying to update the code so that the full latest version can be part of the standard DOF distribution. Whenever my tables start without SSFImpactor it feels empty to me. But I have not tried SSFThump which is supposed to be a lot easier to install and use. SSFImpactor also does a good job of simulating a pinball machine’s shaker motor and mechanical gear box sounds (there is a thread on this forum about using SSFImpactor just for that, while using SSFThump for the simulated solenoid sound enhancement)
Hope that makes sense. I still plan to put solenoids in my cabinet eventually just so I can see for myself, but I find it hard to imagine I will like them so much more I would give up the ability to control volume. Here you can turn down the mechanical sounds and still use SSFImpactor to provide a thump you feel without making a ton of noise (not silent, but you certainly don’t hear it down the street).
I am new to this, this is just what I have discovered in the last couple weeks setting mine up. I could get corrected, and that would be great :)
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The BST-1 is for the thump only (hence name bass shaker), you won’t hear the higher frequency mechanical sounds though or even most of the low frequency unless its enhanced by SSF Thump (which I haven’t used yet) or augmented with SSFImpactor (see my thread describing journey getting that up to snuff).
My setup matches the recommended setup for SSFImpactor. You use a total of three 2.1 amps:
1 for your backbox speakers and audio subwoofer
1 for your side (aka rear center) surround sound (rear of your cabinet), 2 DAEX25 exciters and BST-1 bass shaker
1 for your rear surround sound (front of your cabinet), 2 DAEX25 exciters and TT25-8 tactile transducer
Difference between tactile transducer and bass shaker? No idea technically, but the practical difference in this case is the TT25-8 has less thump which is a nice option for effects that don’t need to shake the table apart. You could use a second BST-1 instead.
Its nice to use a 2.1 amp with an independent bass volume (see my thread about the Lepai 2.1 amp) for this.
With this setup and basic SSF you get nice positional sound and if you increase the bass on the amp and/or use EqualizerAPO to enhance the bass of the mechanical sounds you feel some tactile feedback. But you can do more. I haven’t tried it yet but SSF Thump manages some EqualizerAPO presets to feed bass to the shakers where you can really feel it. Another option is SSFImpactor which requires you to setup DOF and it augments the mechanical sounds by playing low frequency effects to the bass shakers. This is what I have been playing with and I am trying to update the code so that the full latest version can be part of the standard DOF distribution. Whenever my tables start without SSFImpactor it feels empty to me. But I have not tried SSFThump which is supposed to be a lot easier to install and use. SSFImpactor also does a good job of simulating a pinball machine’s shaker motor and mechanical gear box sounds (there is a thread on this forum about using SSFImpactor just for that, while using SSFThump for the simulated solenoid sound enhancement)
Hope that makes sense. I still plan to put solenoids in my cabinet eventually just so I can see for myself, but I find it hard to imagine I will like them so much more I would give up the ability to control volume. Here you can turn down the mechanical sounds and still use SSFImpactor to provide a thump you feel without making a ton of noise (not silent, but you certainly don’t hear it down the street).
I am new to this, this is just what I have discovered in the last couple weeks setting mine up. I could get corrected, and that would be great :)
Thanks for the detailed response! Where are the BST-1 and TT25 in your cabinet? Assuming the DAEX’s are near the flippers and sides in the rear?
I have the Creative Gigaworks T40 II desktop speakers for the backglass and those don’t need a separate amp so I’m good there. I also have 2 of the Lepy 2.1 838 with the superbass port. So you’re saying I would plug the BST-1’s into the superbass port of the amps and the DAEX25’s into the L/R. Just need to know where to mount the BST-1’s then… :)
I did read through your thread actually but it sounded like the SSFImpactor Dev was MIA so I wasn’t sure if that was worth trying to get working once my cab is built. If it’s a game changer though, I’ll definitely give it a shot. I don’t think I’ll go with solenoids as the whole “power supply wiring” thing has me very nervous.
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The recommended location of the BST-1 is the sub output of the amp running the side (RearCenter) surround sound speakers in the back of your cabinet. Its going to provide the deep thump impact of the pop bumpers and simulated shaker motor. You kinda want it in the back for the best cabinet stability (most of the weight is in the back). Its also somewhat less likely to interfere with an accelerometer you might have installed in the front for nudging. The TT25 I have on the sub output of the amp running the rear surround speakers (front of cabinet, I know it gets confusing).
I would definitely look at enhancing things with SSFThump or SSFImpactor, for me its a big difference. I will be happy to help you with SSFImpactor, I’d like to see if its just me liking the effect or not. Its actually not that hard to setup. But SSFThump is highly recommend by others, though I have not yet tried it.
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The recommended location of the BST-1 is the sub output of the amp running the side (RearCenter) surround sound speakers in the back of your cabinet. Its going to provide the deep thump impact of the pop bumpers and simulated shaker motor. You kinda want it in the back for the best cabinet stability (most of the weight is in the back). Its also somewhat less likely to interfere with an accelerometer you might have installed in the front for nudging. The TT25 I have on the sub output of the amp running the rear surround speakers (front of cabinet, I know it gets confusing).
I would definitely look at enhancing things with SSFThump or SSFImpactor, for me its a big difference. I will be happy to help you with SSFImpactor, I’d like to see if its just me liking the effect or not. Its actually not that hard to setup. But SSFThump is highly recommend by others, though I have not yet tried it.
Once my cab is built I’ll definitely attempt SSFImpactor then. Might as well be able to help each other… I understand your amp hookups, but where do you physically have the BST-1 and TT25 in the cab? BST-1 is in the back on the bottom or wall under the backglass? Is the TT25 in the back as well or is that in the front against the coin door wall or ? I was going to order 2 BST-1’s, but maybe I’ll cancel one of them and do the TT25. I am planning to get the VirtuaPin Plunger kit, so like you said, the BST-1 might interfere with KLZ board in the front there. Again, thanks for all the responses so far, this is very helpful!
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My BST-1 is on the floor of the cabinet in a rear corner next to the computer. I am slightly concerned about the vibrations and being so close to the computer but as long as you are using SSD disk I am hopeing there will not be an issue. My TT25 is on the front floor of the cabinet essentially right under the plunger. I’m not sure how much the positions matter as their job is to shake the cabinet more than to make noise. You could definitely use two BST-1 and just adjust the bass volune on the 2.1 amp for the front one if you don’t want it to shake as much. I like having a variety of sound so everything doesn’t sound exactly the same
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I think I’ll try what you did with the TT25 in the front and BST-1 in the rear. I’ll order the surface mounting kit to the TT25 as well…
Did you just use a wire nut to connect speaker wire to the wires coming out of the TT25 and then run the other end to the amp? Trying to visualize how this all will look.
And this might be a dumb question, but from what I’m reading, the BST-1 doesn’t come with mounting screws? Any chance you can share what you used to secure it to the cab please?
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I suppose you could. I am sure there are lots of options. For me I crimped on spade connectors as I had already bought a crimping tool, a bunch of wire, and spade connectors so it was a natural solution for what I had on hand.
As for mounting screws. I had bought a bunch of 1/2″ black wood screws that I have been using to screw random things into my cabinet (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072NDJC7P), I think I used these for the BST-1. Anything those were too small for I just grabbed something from a box of assorted wood screws i have in the garage. I started out trying to be really precise about how I put things together but no plan survives the enemy and things kinda went ad hoc quickly. Nothing ever seems to fit the way you expected, and lining up and drilling holes in the right spot to mount things is trickier than I expect when you are hanging upside down reaching into a cabinet.
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The reason I asked about the wire nuts is that I’m planning on mounting my Amps on the back of the backglass so I have access to the volume knobs. (I’m not doing a coin door).
It looks like the TT25 only has these two little wires coming out of them, so if the Amp isn’t near, I assumed I needed a way to extend those wires to reach the amp.
Thanks for the Amazon link, those look perfect.
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I suppose you could. I am sure there are lots of options. For me I crimped on spade connectors as I had already bought a crimping tool, a bunch of wire, and spade connectors so it was a natural solution for what I had on hand.
As for mounting screws. I had bought a bunch of 1/2″ black wood screws that I have been using to screw random things into my cabinet (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072NDJC7P), I think I used these for the BST-1. Anything those were too small for I just grabbed something from a box of assorted wood screws i have in the garage. I started out trying to be really precise about how I put things together but no plan survives the enemy and things kinda went ad hoc quickly. Nothing ever seems to fit the way you expected, and lining up and drilling holes in the right spot to mount things is trickier than I expect when you are hanging upside down reaching into a cabinet.
Not to derail this thread, but I read in another post that you are using the GRS 43″ Kit. I just ordered that kit as well and it should arrive mid next week. I guess it’s safe to assume that all the SFF speakers will fit in it at least. Is there anything you learned from using this kit that it would be nice to know when building it? Is the playfield angled when you mount it or flat? Would love to hear any advice you can give! Thanks!
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I could write an essay on that cabinet. Its all going to come down to what you want to do with it. Build once and be done and its probably fine. Modding over time has challenges. The biggest problem with the cabinet is that once its assembled you won’t be able to access the interior of the cabinet from the top (you can’t remove the plexiglass without disassembling the cabinet).
I have heavily modded the cabinet to eliminate most of the offending aspects but I am not particularly handy with tools so it stretched my abilities. I’ve gotten lucky so far. I might have been happier just using it as it was intended rather than fighting its very nature.
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Playfield is flat with the built in mounting. Depth is adjustable when you build the cabinet (set once assembled).
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Playfield is flat with the built in mounting. Depth is adjustable when you build the cabinet (set once assembled).
My thinking is that once I build it, I’m going to just leave it as is. That’s why I’m getting all the SSF stuff now and plan to install it all from the beginning. I am not planning to add things like solenoids or LED’s after the fact. In theory, it seems like you could add some things by going through the bottom hatch, but not sure how that works in reality. In my “monitors on a table proof of concept” I have up now, I have the playfield angled towards me. I’m not sure if I’d like it completely flat.
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Seems like a very reasonable plan. I kinda wish I had been more reasonable, I’d be done. Don’t plan on being able to do much with the bottom access panel.
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Make sure everything in the bottom of your cabinet is firmly secured. The bass shakers make things rattle something awful. I have a real coin door and coin mechs and coin box in mine (my daughters like to drop the quarters in) and when the front transducer fires my coin box rattles and adds a high frequency component to the thump. At first I thought I just wasn’t liking the transducer sound and thought about adding a second BST-1 instead. But once I removed the coin box the TT25 made a pleasant smallish thump as intended. I don’t think you’ll have anything like that in yours, but thought I’d throw out the warning to secure everything just in case.
FYI I can fix mine by putting some padding under the box to absorb the vibration. I just haven’t found the right size. The foam tile piece I tried worked but is slightly too thick and causes the coin box to block to the coin door mechs when the door closes. Should just be a minor issue. Wanting that stupid detail of a working coin door/mech has caused the most problems with my cabinet, geesh. I need a cure to my OCD.
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I’ll never understand the love with coin doors. I’m sure it’s just me. I’m not THAT concerned with visual authenticity.
So did you mount your PC in the back with your plunger kit up front? I’m trying to visualize the interior from the videos I’ve seen. Thinking about putting the transducer on the front part where your coin door would normally be, and the plunger pcb on the bottom towards the front. The PC would go in the back section (though it might be a little big as I can’t really tell how much space there is from the assembly video.) The BST-1 I thought would go on the bottom in the back. Hopefully there’s enough room for all of this once I actually start to assemble… I was hoping to leave nothing on top of the hatch door, but again, not sure how much room there really is inside, so we’ll see if that’s possible…
Also, how did you angle the playfield? Is that something you can do with the cabinet itself or did you need to get creative?
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