This topic contains 36 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by  Cadelle32 1 month, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #103049
     xenonph 
    Participant
    MemberContributor

    Just noticed there are no roms available for download at VPUniverse.

    Are they updating? or has something  else happened?

    Hope it is just an update.

    Carry on.

    #103050
     Schreibi34 
    Participant
    Member

    Gottlieb roms had to go on VPForums. Whatever that means….

    #103051
     xenonph 
    Participant
    MemberContributor

    I know about the DMCA Takedown notice for the Gottlieb roms at VPForums.

    But VPU has no roms now.

    NONE!!

    #103053
     randr 
    Keymaster
    ModeratorMember

    No site could host the Gottlieb roms. Ever! I’ve mentioned this to Paul many times!! But he insisted he had the right to host them :wacko:

    im sure vpu is redoing stuff but yeah vpu sure cannot be hosting Gottlieb roms either. The Pinball database can’t even host them!!! Nobody can or ever could.

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    Messing with the VPinball app and push notifications.
    So if you haven't downloaded app yet what are you waiting for!?
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    #103082
     xenonph 
    Participant
    MemberContributor

    Yes I know about the Gottlieb rom situation.

    I remember when IPDB removed them a long time ago.

    Also all Gottlieb manuals were removed.

    Wildman (Administrator) said he is looking into why the roms have disappeared over at VPUniverse.

    He said I Quote:

    “Sent them out to get washed ,They were dirty

    but for real I dont know,,  looking into it ….but your right they are not there…”

    I am sure they will get it sorted soon.

    But as of this message the roms are still not there.

    Hope its just a server error or something like that.

    Carry on.

    #103083
     Thalamus 
    Moderator
    ContributorMemberModerator

    Gottlieb doesn’t make new roms. And I have all the roms VPM currently supports. I’m not a US citizen, and I don’t care one bit about DMCA. The roms ain’t gone – lets put it that way for now – ok ?

    2 users thanked author for this post.
    #103084
     xenonph 
    Participant
    MemberContributor

    Not sure how this got us all talking about Gottlieb roms, but I was just talking about all the roms are down on VPU.

    Carry on.

    #103099
     LynnInDenver 
    Participant

    Not sure how this got us all talking about Gottlieb roms, but I was just talking about all the roms are down on VPU.

    Carry on.

    I think it only came up because the timing is a bit suspicious considering VPF pulled their Gottlieb ROMs about a week ago on request.

    Three possibilities:

    Someone screwed up doing a server update and wiped/unlinked the ROMs on VPU.

    Gottlieb sent a DMCA to VPU and someone there panicked and deleted everything instead of just the Gottlieb ROMs, or just decided it was safer to do so for speed and reupload the “safe” ROM files later.

    Gottlieb sent a DMCA to VPU around the time they sent one to VPF, it wasn’t responded to, and they went to the host provider, who just wiped all the ROMs than try to figure out which ones needed to go. Which is odd, because a DMCA request of that nature usually results in the entire site taken offline rather than be even that surgical.

    #103125
     xenonph 
    Participant
    MemberContributor

    Well all the roms are still all gone as of this message also.

    I know it is probably just something simple, but my paranoia kicks in and tells me different.

    I always think the worst for some reason.

    Hope its just a server error or something like that.

    Would be a sad day if only way to get roms now, was to secretly get them from “questionable” sites.

    Or having to ask a friend who already has them.

    See!! The paranoia has set in!! lol

    Seriously though, I hope all gets back to normal soon.

    Me and a friend (HiRez00), have decided not to use any more Gottlieb tables for mods, as people might have a hard time finding the roms.

    Sad but true. Have to change with the times.

    Carry on.

    #103129
     randr 
    Keymaster
    ModeratorMember

    Change with the times? Gottlieb roms should never have been hosted on any site. That’s nothing new just been done illegally for all these years is all.

    I see other huge changes coming too as example a member charging a lot of money for art “designs” that are copyrighted to be printed for cabinet decals. That’s also a huge no no but maybe that will still be overlooked? We will see. But I know one thing nobody has the rights to any of that art I’ve seen printed commercially and sold  certainly the person creating them has no right to sell it

     

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    Messing with the VPinball app and push notifications.
    So if you haven't downloaded app yet what are you waiting for!?
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    #103130
     xenonph 
    Participant
    MemberContributor

    Although the Gottlieb roms have been illegal for quite some time, that has not stopped table authors from making Gottlieb tables that use said roms, on any of the pinball sites. All of the pinball sites have Gottlieb tables that require a Gottlieb rom , for them to function properly.

    I was just explaining why me and HiRez00 , will not be using Gottlieb tables for mods in the future.

    I like to adhere to rules when I can.

    Carry on.

     

    #103131
     LynnInDenver 
    Participant

    There is a good point there, randr.

    As a note, I know in one of Adam Savage’s “Still Untitled” podcasts a couple of months ago, he talked a bit about the “garage prop kit” scene a bit, more importantly that the IP holders are pretty much aware of everyone operating in that space, and what they’re actively involved in. They allow a certain amount of the hobbyist activity (although in a few cases “tolerate” is the operative word for it), and will issue cease and desist letters when one of them takes reproduction castings and the like “too far”, and I’m not surprised that Gottlieb stepped in with VPF finally, given what I’ve seen of their actions on the hobbyist level. I can see the small handful of higher profile incidents where people have crossed the line in terms of Visual Pinball, such as the Ghostbusters LE release over on MonsterPincab that Farsight C&D’d last year, might have pushed Gottlieb into the “they’re going too far now” view and finally taking action on VPF and possibly VPU. We’re lucky that Scientific (Bally Williams) hasn’t shown that, and that Stern has had a gentleman’s agreement with the community.

    I’m not a fan of Gottlieb’s stringent Copyright Maximalist approach, but more from the “increasing the minimum cost” on getting physical machines they made working again, which I smacked into when we got a System 1 Solar Ride that needed work to even coin up. I can’t recommend Gottlieb machines to anyone just entering the pinball hobby for that reason, because you’re either relying on non-manual troubleshooting walkthroughs that have to omit certain operating details, or shelling out upwards of $100 for a Pinball Resource photocopy of a complete manual set for a machine (really hard to justify when the machine might not be worth even $500), not to mention the issue of acquiring ROMs if you ever have to repopulate a machine’s original board set. I understand that they have the rights to demand it be that way, but I don’t have to like it as a hobbyist. Part of me is kind of afraid the “other shoe” might drop with Gottlieb, and they might demand all the sites pull the table files as well “because they use Gottlieb copyrighted assets”.

    Regarding VPU, I’m curious as to what’s really happened, my speculation aside, but I’m also expecting if it’s anything other than a server error, that we won’t see any ROMs ever return there at that point, like how emuparadise yanked their files when Nintendo hit those other two sites with lawsuits.

    #103132
     randr 
    Keymaster
    ModeratorMember

    I used to service arcade and pinballs out in the field in early 90’s and you could not get Gottlieb Roms even back then but could get Williams and others off the internet with no troubles. Back then i had a CD-Rom with Gottlieb Roms incase i had to burn an eprom so again this is nothing new.

    I always get my Roms from the pinball database anyways so it really dont matter to me either way and heck i still have the cd-rom from Chicago pinball show with Gottlieb stuff but you can always find the stuff online if you look hard enough

     

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    Messing with the VPinball app and push notifications.
    So if you haven't downloaded app yet what are you waiting for!?
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    #103133
     arconovum 
    Participant
    MemberContributor

    throw enough cash at someone and they will gladly give you roms. :whistle:
    :yes:

    #103134
     StevOz 
    Participant

    If I had any spare change I would have set up a seedbox with all the roms available via torrent.

    Just don’t agree with the current extended copyright laws, they currently run almost totally in counter to the original intent of copyright law.

    #103135
     randr 
    Keymaster
    ModeratorMember

    I’m sure vpu must be doing maintenance or something?

    very strange that vpf gave zero details on the removal of the unauthorized hosted content.

    ********************************************************
    Messing with the VPinball app and push notifications.
    So if you haven't downloaded app yet what are you waiting for!?
    *******************************************************

    #103136
     xenonph 
    Participant
    MemberContributor

    I am hoping it is just maintenance or something like that for VPU.

    Only thing I saw on VPF about the Gottlieb roms, was where Destruk wrote this…

    Posted 04 November 2018 – 12:04 PM

    Gottlieb roms have been removed from vpforums.org as requested.

    https://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=41196#entry416992

    But the same post is also on front page of VPF..

    https://www.vpforums.org/index.php?app=portal

    I have got most of my roms from IPDB,  just like you Randr.

    #103137
     CarnyPriest 
    Participant
    Member

    *shrugs

    No idea. Don’t host ’em; I just post ’em.

    :unsure:

    Players can get most game code needed at IPDB or from primary sources:

    Planetary Pinball for Williams/Bally

    Stern Pinball for SAM/Whitestar

    various European sites for European tables

    Don’t know about back catalog code and hacks. Share amongst yourselves for now, I guess.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #103141
     randr 
    Keymaster
    ModeratorMember

    @carnypriest

    And thanks for all you do btw

    ********************************************************
    Messing with the VPinball app and push notifications.
    So if you haven't downloaded app yet what are you waiting for!?
    *******************************************************

    #103157
     xenonph 
    Participant
    MemberContributor

    Well it’s not looking good if Carnypriest AND Wildman are not sure what happened to the roms.

    I hope for the best, but my paranoia makes me think the worst.

    I agree with Randr, a huge thanks to Carnypriest for all he has done for this community.

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