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I’ll add two cents: One of the things I love most about pinball is the spirit of acceptance, open-mindedness, and tolerance. It’s a “come as you are” community, warts and all. I’ve certainly been among those getting a little too wild and crazy (annoying even) late at night at pinball gatherings. I’m always impressed with the community’s ability to address issues directly, and then to forgive and move on. Intense emotions are natural among us creative types. Hell, I’ve been in bands where we’ve literally gotten into fist fights over song arrangements!
The process can be really messy, but I’m confident we can show our strength as a community and heal this up. Don’t know you. Don’t think I’ve ever had a discussion with you. The Internet is a sewer as is this community because it is on the Internet. But you never act like you are in a sewer and never seems to forget that there is a person on the other end of the shit stream. Bless you, sir.
Me? I’ll just hold my nose and keep downloading, like I’ve done for years. Carry on, fuckers.
And don’t you dare upvote. Seriously.
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Ok Fren can you prove what you say? I want you to prove this: “Tom’s transgressions are well documented” and especially this: “He asked people to PAY HIM TO PUT HIS TABLES ON THEIR WEBSITE” This is ridicolous. I knew it wasn’t a joke
I can but I don’t need to.
He sold DVDs full of visual pinball tables on his website, got called out on VPF for it, nicco then attempted to defend him and did a terrible job at it (for example, he said he got permission from authors to sell the DVD – not true, I gave him permission to upload my tables to his website), then changed his downloads on VPF to be an advertisement for his website, monsterbashpincab, then got banned. He wasn’t banned for the DVDs, he was banned because he went scorched earth and replaced his uploads with advertisements for his website that sold DVDs.
Then once he found out how unpopular it was that he was selling tables, he removed the DVD sales on his website. He posted a couple tables here then asked randr to pay him for his tables to be posted here. There’s chat history, I’m sure, it’s up to randr if he wants to post it but he absolutely doesn’t need to. Randr laughed and said no, so he stopped uploading tables here, too.
Now some Italian guy is/was selling DVDs on ebay
And why are you, ninuzzu, defending Tom Tower? When you created this very thread in the first place, clearly frustrated that someone was selling DVDs? When Tom Tower himself was busted for…selling DVDs??? That’s the person you’re defending.
I have nothing to prove. Tom has a lot of trust still to earn if he wants to be respected. Don’t fall into the same trap, we really love the work you do ninuzzu and I respect you but don’t go blindly defending Tom. He screwed up and needs to speak for himself.
Punch it!
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Like I said before!
Second chances maybe for this guy selling dvd’s? That’s all I said! You guys are making this a bigger deal then it needs to be that’s for sure.
This keeps up maybe I will shut-er down too! Talk about no respect! I didn’t sell vp dvd’s! I didn’t booby trap downloads at vpf! There is plenty of documented history.
ninuzzu I don’t even know ozg but I assure you it was meant as a joke! But tom started slinging accusations about me not responding to a chat message? Really!? How about try a pm? Email? Tom has been difficult to talk to in past I sure hope all this is a language thing or some people really need to communicate better!
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We posted same time. Well said fren. Well said
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@Fren what are you talking about? Are you serious? I am tom’s moderator in mb pincab and I could WITHOUT DOUBTS say NO ONE TAKE MONEY to share own works. Are you crazy with yours words? I see you are a mod here… good work like moderator. The iceberg starts to be shown and ozg joke is only the the point of iceberg… could you see @randr ? Do you really think Tom decided to stop his website and his work for a joke? It’s for this atmosphere you could breathe… We are lot more than this… Here, in MBPC there are no gay people, no etero or lesbo people… we are a community and and all of us is a little piece of the biggest picture. Way to grow up is understand this but I start to think here there are no ears. Please continue to attack. Enjoy
The last thing I am doing is defending ozg. He has bad opinions, read my disagreement with him earlier in this topic. You, I don’t know who you are, I know you are Tom’s friend and you are defending him, beyond that, who you are and what your opinions are mean nothing to me. I’ll allow you to say it though. So far it’s only been hot air, nothing of substance.
This website was drama free until Tom Tower tried to start something with randr earlier in this thread. I’ll defend randr and this website from any such attacks and attempts at instigating, just as you apparently will defend Tom Tower. From nothing, apparently, since I’ve said nothing but accurate statements about him and all we’ve gotten from him is “woe-is-me I’m going to shut down my website” nonsense. Tom Tower needs to apologize or get on with it.
By the way, I don’t know or like ozg but it was so clearly a joke and you’ve taken him too seriously. Obviously, that’s a language barrier, but it’s not up to us to translate it for you. If you wish to misinterpret it then that’s your prerogative and you will be swiftly corrected.
Punch it!
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he said he got permission from authors to sell the DVD
False, he said that he got permission for all the VPX tables present in the forum, not to sell the DVD.
he was banned because he went scorched earth and replaced his uploads with advertisements for his website that sold DVDs
False, he was banned because he uploaded flyer images of a table instead of the table itself, after Noah menaced him of legal actions for the DVDs.
Then once he found out how unpopular it was that he was selling tables, he removed the DVD sales on his website.
False, he removed them because he was menaced of legal actions by Noah.
He posted a couple tables here then asked randr to pay him for his tables to be posted here
My friend saw Jesus last night………..Jesus exists! I want evidences, I want facts, I don’t believe in Jesus.
I have nothing to prove.
This means that all that you said is not the truth. Is what you want to SEE the truth.
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This is a question, so please don’t get mad at me. I absolutely agree that people should not profit from something that is available for free and has been created by others hard work, but we do need to ask why people would. This has all happened before in the emulation scene and the main reason it happened, was that it was often to difficult / time consuming to get everything together and setup correctly. I have spent an huge amount of time setting up the software and tables on my virtual pin cab. In truth far far longer than is reasonable. I came to this from the arcade and emulation scene and have lots of friends that I know would absolutely love VP if they got into it. (One friend recently played on my VP and went and bought a real pin!) The problem is I would not want them to have to repeat the amount of effort I have put in getting all set-up right. What we should actually want is people spending the time actually playing and enjoying this wonderful hobby.
I bought my pin cab from ebay with some tables installed and without that I would not be part of this scene. However this wasn’t for profit, the parts for the cab I bought cost more that I paid for it. The seller was just about to build himself a new one. The tables were badly set-up and out of date, so I spent months setting all the software up correctly. I am really happy with the results
My question is why would people pay for something that is free? Do we need to find a ways to make this far easier for people to get set-up and running well, while still ensuring the authors get the credit they deserve. This hobby is great and I would like to see many more people get involved and enjoy it, but the one thing I have to challenge is the belief that if people don’t put in loads of effort to get it all set-up they are unlikely to contribute. In truth the reverse is true, if it didn’t take so long people would actually have much more time to be able to contribute and there may be many great table builders out there that just haven’t discovered Visual Pinball yet!
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I finish up work, drive an hour home and this is still an issue!
Gotta love the inter-webs! lol
Well said Mr. freneticamnesic and Big Boss randr. Thank god I didn’t get into this conversation much it really would of been a shit show! lol
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he said he got permission from authors to sell the DVD
False, he said that he got permission for all the VPX tables present in the forum, not to sell the DVD.
he was banned because he went scorched earth and replaced his uploads with advertisements for his website that sold DVDs
False, he was banned because he uploaded flyer images of a table instead of the table itself, after Noah menaced him of legal actions for the DVDs.
Then once he found out how unpopular it was that he was selling tables, he removed the DVD sales on his website.
False, he removed them because he was menaced of legal actions by Noah.
He posted a couple tables here then asked randr to pay him for his tables to be posted here
My friend saw Jesus last night………..Jesus exists! I want evidences, I want facts, I don’t believe in Jesus.
I have nothing to prove.
This means that all that you said is not the truth. Is what you want to SEE the truth.
Aaaand it’s gone. Your credibility. If Noah threatened legal action, then good. That’s even BETTER! HE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN SELLING THE DVDS IN THE FIRST PLACE – quit glossing over this fact. Nicco posted himself that Tom had permission and not all the tables are on the DVD. But I mean, look at the list of tables available on the DVD he was selling with your own eyes, I can tell you for a fact many of those tables he did not have permission to sell.
Don’t be so ignorant. Saying it’s false that he removed the DVD because everyone hated it and that it’s instead ONLY because of legal action makes Tom Tower look so much worse. Only the threat of losing money could make him do this, not the opinions of the people of the community. You’re not defending him very well!
You said it was false that he uploaded advertisements, then confirmed that he uploaded advertisements…… I mean I don’t even have to counter you, you just did a better job of making Tom Tower look like a thin skinned crook than I ever could have.
Punch it!
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This is a question, so please don’t get mad at me. I absolutely agree that people should not profit from something that is available for free and has been created by others hard work, but we do need to ask why people would. This has all happened before in the emulation scene and the main reason it happened, was that it was often to difficult / time consuming to get everything together and setup correctly. I have spent an huge amount of time setting up the software and tables on my virtual pin cab. In truth far far longer than is reasonable. I came to this from the arcade and emulation scene and have lots of friends that I know would absolutely love VP if they got into it. (One friend recently played on my VP and went and bought a real pin!) The problem is I would not want them to have to repeat the amount of effort I have put in getting all set-up right. What we should actually want is people spending the time actually playing and enjoying this wonderful hobby. I bought my pin cab from ebay with some tables installed and without that I would not be part of this scene. However this wasn’t for profit, the parts for the cab I bought cost more that I paid for it. The seller was just about to build himself a new one. The tables were badly set-up and out of date, so I spent months setting all the software up correctly. I am really happy with the results
My question is why would people pay for something that is free? Do we need to find a ways to make this far easier for people to get set-up and running well, while still ensuring the authors get the credit they deserve. This hobby is great and I would like to see many more people get involved and enjoy it, but the one thing I have to challenge is the belief that if people don’t put in loads of effort to get it all set-up they are unlikely to contribute. In truth the reverse is true, if it didn’t take so long people would actually have much more time to be able to contribute and there may be many great table builders out there that just haven’t discovered Visual Pinball yet! You are truly an exception, my biggest fear when people sell these things pre-loaded is that we are going to lose the community. Thank you for participating and bucking the trend. Many people out there have cabinets they bought pre-loaded, from many different distributors, I hope many of them find a way to participate as you have. Also, I’m not against all-in-one installers. Easier to access installations is great. Anything to make this process painless. I like the software freezy created to do this very thing, but I disagree with him on several issues so I don’t participate. I believe itchigo has done something similar too. My concern is that when there’s people making money off of this, it’s bringing the wrong kind of attention to the hobby. That’s when legal threats get real, that’s when websites get shut down. I’m not against making this easier to access, quite the contrary! but I just want it done in a legal way that drives people to the community. And I don’t say this as a VPinball community, or a VPForums or VPUniverse or Monsterbashpincab divide, I consider it all the same community. As long as we know where to go. If Tom Tower wants to make an installer, that is free of course, and include tables I have recreated, he and everyone else have my permission to do that. But they can’t profit from them or sell them in any way.
Punch it!
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I still don’t see the facts :)
When you’ll show me what your saying, my credibility will be gone, for now, yours is gone instead.
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Follow the links. Blind unwillingness to understand what I’m showing you is your own problem and I won’t beat this dead horse any more, it’s gone rotten.
But seriously, what’s your defense for Tom selling the work of others? Or are you actually denying that that took place? Are you? Please tell me you’re not denying that because that would be hilarious. You’re denying that this link exists? or what are you actually denying?
I still don’t see the facts :) When you’ll show me what your saying, my credibility will be gone, for now, yours is gone instead.
“I’m not stupid, you’re stupid” that is some middle school nonsense and I already gave you and Tom and Nicco a swirly. That’s when someone, myself in this case, dunks someone else, ie. you, Tom, and nicco, face first into a toilet and flushes.
I hope my analogies translate well for you.
Punch it!
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https://web.archive.org/web/20160123095325/http://www.monsterbashpincab.com:80/dvd/
Good luck defending that nicco84 yeah we just make up stuff here
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Ugh. I was hoping maybe this would have died down only to see it has escalated.
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I still don’t see the facts :) When you’ll show me what your saying, my credibility will be gone, for now, yours is gone instead.
Ninuzzu you must be joking!
Im going to close this thread if this keeps up! its a joke for our forum to be messed up over Tom Tower who does not even post here normally!
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