This topic contains 78 replies, has 22 voices, and was last updated by  PinWiz99 1 month, 1 week ago.

Viewing 20 posts - 41 through 60 (of 79 total)
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  • #68988
     The Loafer 
    Participant
    Member

    From what I understand on how it works, playfield hologram videos should work just fine but at one big sacrifice: no exclusive fullscreen mode

    i guess one possible way around this limitation; if somehow the vpx source could Incorporate PinUp source so that the rendering of the video element is on the same layer?  Of course I could be totally freaking wrong on how this works lol

    #68989
     TerryRed 
    Moderator
    MemberContributorModerator

    From what I understand on how it works, playfield hologram videos should work just fine but at one big sacrifice: no exclusive fullscreen mode i guess one possible way around this limitation; if somehow the vpx source could Incorporate PinUp source so that the rendering of the video element is on the same layer? Of course I could be totally freaking wrong on how this works lol

    PinUp Player just uses VLC Player to play the videos. So, yes you could add what “looks” like an overlay video on the playfield screen, but yes it won’t work with exclusive fullscreen. So, basically PinUp Player will play videos fine for Desktop users similar to how you see an Overlay Video in FP in desktop view, but you will need to run in Windowed Fullscreen to see them….just like you would have to for UltraDMD videos, or dmdext on the desktop screen.

    As for playfield hologram videos (not overlays) in FP, that cannot be recreated by PinUp Player for VPX as those are actual table elements just like a bumper or any other 3D object with a texture / image.

    @randr, didn’t you use some kind of hologram / overlay image sequence for Mad Scientist’s startup video? If VPX “can” do that, then why don’t more people use it for videos? I honestly don’t know what VPX can or can’t do with images like that.

     

    #68992
     randr 
    Keymaster
    ModeratorMember

    I did “Video” in my cftbl mode, Mopar madness and mad scientist builds. But the “video” is just animated stills but effect was ok

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    #68993
     TerryRed 
    Moderator
    MemberContributorModerator

    I did “Video” in my cftbl mode, Mopar madness and mad scientist builds. But the “video” is just animated stills but effect was ok

    The “videos” in FP are also just animated stills. I had to import almost 1000 images for MOTU! Then you create playlists and then just play them as you will. They can be either an overlay (can be used for playfield or backglass elements), a HUD overlay (which displays over top of everything…normally for desktop view), or a hologram (used as a playfield element only, with transparency,etc).

     

    What ways can you use animated stills with VP? Obviously only for the playfield screen…. but just as an overlay, or a table element as well?

    #68994
     randr 
    Keymaster
    ModeratorMember

    I will PM you my CFTBL mod in that VP9 build i just emulated the real mod so the video is triggered by switches, lights and buttons just like real mod i have in my CFTBL

    Never released it as many builds ive done never see the light of day but is VERY cool!

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    Messing with the VPinball app and push notifications.
    So if you haven't downloaded app yet what are you waiting for!?
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    #69008
     CarnyPriest 
    Participant
    Member

    From what I understand on how it works, playfield hologram videos should work just fine but at one big sacrifice: no exclusive fullscreen mode i guess one possible way around this limitation; if somehow the vpx source could Incorporate PinUp source so that the rendering of the video element is on the same layer? Of course I could be totally freaking wrong on how this works lol

    PinUp Player just uses VLC Player to play the videos. So, yes you could add what “looks” like an overlay video on the playfield screen, but yes it won’t work with exclusive fullscreen. So, basically PinUp Player will play videos fine for Desktop users similar to how you see an Overlay Video in FP in desktop view, but you will need to run in Windowed Fullscreen to see them….just like you would have to for UltraDMD videos, or dmdext on the desktop screen. As for playfield hologram videos (not overlays) in FP, that cannot be recreated by PinUp Player for VPX as those are actual table elements just like a bumper or any other 3D object with a texture / image. @randr, didn’t you use some kind of hologram / overlay image sequence for Mad Scientist’s startup video? If VPX “can” do that, then why don’t more people use it for videos? I honestly don’t know what VPX can or can’t do with images like that.

    Pinball 2000 FTW!

    008resize

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    #69011
     TerryRed 
    Moderator
    MemberContributorModerator

    From what I understand on how it works, playfield hologram videos should work just fine but at one big sacrifice: no exclusive fullscreen mode i guess one possible way around this limitation; if somehow the vpx source could Incorporate PinUp source so that the rendering of the video element is on the same layer? Of course I could be totally freaking wrong on how this works lol

    PinUp Player just uses VLC Player to play the videos. So, yes you could add what “looks” like an overlay video on the playfield screen, but yes it won’t work with exclusive fullscreen. So, basically PinUp Player will play videos fine for Desktop users similar to how you see an Overlay Video in FP in desktop view, but you will need to run in Windowed Fullscreen to see them….just like you would have to for UltraDMD videos, or dmdext on the desktop screen. As for playfield hologram videos (not overlays) in FP, that cannot be recreated by PinUp Player for VPX as those are actual table elements just like a bumper or any other 3D object with a texture / image. @randr, didn’t you use some kind of hologram / overlay image sequence for Mad Scientist’s startup video? If VPX “can” do that, then why don’t more people use it for videos? I honestly don’t know what VPX can or can’t do with images like that.

    Pinball 2000 FTW! 008resize

    I totally was thinking about you Carney when  messing with this program.  Since it uses VLC, do you think its possible to have its output flipped so it would work for your setup?

    Either way, it wouldn’t matter, as you could use Conver-it, or something similar to do an easy batch conversion of the videos and pics to have them flipped. This would look so cool on your setup!

    #69013
     CarnyPriest 
    Participant
    Member

    Yep, no problem. If the software doesn’t support it then I would just flip the media, but VLC itself has a vflip filter:

    https://wiki.videolan.org/VLC_command-line_help/

    Developer just needs to add it to UI.

    #69021
     randr 
    Keymaster
    ModeratorMember

    @carnypriest I have extra SWE1 kit i should make that style cab install the SWE1 playfield and run a pc with that emulator on it. wonder if that would all work just need power supplies for playfield maybe need more?

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    Messing with the VPinball app and push notifications.
    So if you haven't downloaded app yet what are you waiting for!?
    *******************************************************

    #69033
     CarnyPriest 
    Participant
    Member

    Switches, lights, bumpers, flippers, control boards, on and on…

    #69035
     CarnyPriest 
    Participant
    Member

    Nucore was released as a free download earlier this year. Might be easier just to work on getting it into VPM/VPX. I think it’s fair game now.

    #73614
     blackvulcan3 
    Participant
    Member

    Anything further Terry that you know of? I saw you said Russell was looking to release the Pro version of Blade Runner I think it was before Christmas?

    He sure does beautiful work.

    #73615
     TerryRed 
    Moderator
    MemberContributorModerator

    Anything further Terry that you know of? I saw you said Russell was looking to release the Pro version of Blade Runner I think it was before Christmas? He sure does beautiful work.

    I only know what he posts on his site.  For roughly the last year, he was given a new position at his job with Heighway Pinball, and as a result he wasn’t publicly releasing his games until he no longer worked for the company. So none of his games have been released since then.

    Well he just recently posted that he will lose his job at the end of next month. He said that he won’t ever sell his FP games, but he has mentioned he was considering adding a donation link to his site….and if there is enough interest….he’ll release all of his updated Ultimate Pro tables for everyone.

    I have no problem with him adding a donation link. Most of the main virtual pinball sites have them. Just make the tables available to everyone…no VIP stuff.  :)

     

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    #97897
     TerryRed 
    Moderator
    MemberContributorModerator

    Latest from SLAMT1LT on his site:

    Earth Date: 9th September 2018.

    Iron Man is still occupying most of my free time right now.  A very unhealthy 250 hours have gone into the update so far.  And out of that 250 hours, about 10 hours have gone into fixing the geometry and physics, which were pretty bad.

    Pinball games are precision engineered mechanical toys and anyone trying to build a game in Future Pinball isn’t going to be as precise with their build.  And so, what you get is an inaccurate and poorly constructed facsimile of the real thing.

    As an example, I recently downloaded the X-Men game and whilst it’s a valiant effort, it’s bloody awful to play.  But I can fix it, and I will fix it.

    It’s taken me nearly 10 years to figure out how to finally fix Future Pinball’s physics.  Only a few days ago I made a pretty significant discovery which has made a big difference to how the ball moves in the game.

    While I was working in a real pinball company, I studied how real pinball games are constructed and how the ball moves around the table and how it reacts when hitting various materials at various speeds.  All the time feeding that data back into my own Future Pinball games.

    And over the years I have made improvements to the physics and how I construct my games.  But I’ve never been completely satisfied with the results.  Hence the reason why I don’t release my games at this time.  The only feedback I hear is: “the physics suck!”…but what about the wonderful game I created?

    When Future Pinball’s physics are no longer objectionable, then I’ll release my games.  That’s what I’m working towards.

    Part of this process involves intensive and time consuming testing: I record the gameplay when testing my games, then watch the footage back, over and over.  If the ball does something odd, I figure out why and fix it.  Sometimes the ball does something which I can’t fix and has no logical explanation.  Even in the last Iron Man vids I uploaded (below) you can see some very queer behaviour by the ball as it exits the left lane from launch (this was fixed by the discovery I mentioned earlier.)

    Basically, how the ball moves in any Future Pinball game is a mirror of how skilled the table’s engineer is.  So for 9 years, I’ve been a great designer, lousy engineer!

    But now I think I’ve figured it out – it’s nearly always a combination of bad geometry and incorrect physics settings, not the actual physics engine, that makes Future Pinball unplayable for most people.

    What Future Pinball does get right, that all other simulations get wrong, is it’s unpredictably and ‘wild’ nature, with the ball spinning and jumping off the playfield surface, all contributing to it’s trajectory and speed.   The problem here though, is that not all actions can produce the necessary sound fx that would naturally occur in real life.  So when you miss a shot and clip the edge of a rubber which spins the ball, which then curves into the side of a ball guide slowing it down – all in the blink of an eye, if there’s no sound effect for any of this, you just see ‘crazy physics’.

    And so no pinball simulator can match real physics and probably never will.  It’s like trying to catch lightning in a bottle.   So to hell with it,  Just enjoy virtual pinball for what it is and always will be – a video game.

    Anyway, pinball is more than just smacking a ball around, it’s the experience and fun that any game provides.  And what video game pinball can do that real world pinball can’t do is offer unlimited possibilities.  Case in point: my Iron Man vs the real Iron Man.

     

    #97905
     The Loafer 
    Participant
    Member

    Wow, not sure what to say.  I do agree with two points:  sound does go some way into making it more immersive and yes, at the end of the day it is just a video game.

     

    I don’t doubt the physics tweaks can be improved.  but the implementation of the physics engine was missing a lot of stuff and the gravity aspect wasn’t based on a real model so what I fear he’s doing when he says he’s fixing physics issues is he’s creating a wizard behind the curtain approach where the table is tweaked to compensate for poor physics. Done well, this can improve the gameplay (hell adding triggers to move the ball where you want it to was a mainstay in VP land too) but you then get artificial results and after a while, the audience catches on to the wizard.

     

    There is no replacement for a proper physics model, hopefully the FP source code becomes available someday because I think that’s where we could see the real improvement we are looking for. As it is, I think VP might reach FP style 3D engine before that happens…

    Still I’m on board with ANY improvements. I’ve played a lot of FP tables and the tables can be really fun.  I just wish this update wasn’t accompanied by the wizard selling his pov before hand, if only because we’ve heard it all before.  We’ll only really know when we play a table.

    #97908
     xenonph 
    Participant
    MemberContributor

    I have always liked Future Pinball. It is just like any other pinball program, it has its ups and downs.

    While some programs may lack in the physics department, they have other features that are only available with the certain pinball program.

    Integrated video and 3d rendering of table and gameroom, is what I like about Future Pinball.

    For Desktop users, being able to see a working backglass on same screen was a plus also.

    Rascal did make Hybrid View tables for VP9, and now Nick has created VPX FSS version tables, which also have Backglass on same screen as table.

    Until the PinUpPopper was created, VP had no video integrated into tables. Now it is capable!!

    3D rendering is all thats left for VP to have everything Future pinball is capable of.

    Maybe it is because I am a DT user, but I like both programs, for different reasons.

    I love all the tables!! VP and Future Pinball!!

    We all know which one has better physics!!

    Here is a crappy metaphor… lol

    Its like getting all the crappy Pokemon characters cards while playing the Pokemon card game.

    Yes you know these characters dont have very good offense or defense, but they are part of the collection.

    You wouldn’t throw away these “not so great” cards. You would keep them as part of the “Whole Collection”

    If he can improve the physics on his Future Pinball tables, then I say go for it.

     

     

    #97915
     Cameron 
    Participant
    Member

    So he is saying that he is working on perfecting the physics and when it is done he will release his tables again. Then he says that it will never be perfected and it is basically just a video game. Maybe I have misread that?

     

    I do hope he releases his stuff again. Alas, I missed the old window to get some of his stuff. :(

     

     

    #97922
     TerryRed 
    Moderator
    MemberContributorModerator

    So he is saying that he is working on perfecting the physics and when it is done he will release his tables again. Then he says that it will never be perfected and it is basically just a video game. Maybe I have misread that?

    I do hope he releases his stuff again. Alas, I missed the old window to get some of his stuff. :(

    LOL…I had the same thought. He is a perfectionist for sure…so I thought….well they will never be released then. :)

     

    I completely understand where he comes from though in terms of…he works super hard on these amazing tables, just to have some people make a final conclusion be “well the physics sucks”. Yet completely ignoring some of the unique and amazing stuff he has done.

    When I modded his last released version of Avatar and demoed it on video, he said it was painful for him to watch because all he could see was “The mistakes” in his older table. I can totally relate to that…

     

    ….BUT, if the older table is the ONLY version that anyone else has access to, what else is one to do? I have been waiting years for some of his updated tables to be released before adding DOFLinx to them. For Transformers I’m at the point where I will just mod his VIP 2.4 physics version (the last one released years ago), since who knows how long it will be for the Ultimate Pro version will be released.

     

    I’m also sure that part of him both loves and hates the MX leds and more so the PuP-Pack mods I do. Tron Legacy FP PuP-Pack was pretty close to what he did with his own videos (but in 24fps and in HD,etc), so I can’t see him being too annoyed with that one… but Transformers has over 220+ videos I can use with the FP version.

    Or maybe he hates seeing something used with his FP tables that can also be used with the VPX version? I don’t know as he hasn’t talked to me or anyone else for almost 2 years now.

     

    Take away the physics and videos, and I still LOVE what he does with his tables. The sounds and music are always amazing, and the “extras” he adds to many tables are fantastic. He doesn’t stick to the “formula” (that’s what VPX is for) and I love that.

     

    #105404
     TerryRed 
    Moderator
    MemberContributorModerator

    I have been screaming at SLAM to come take a look at what guys like Gimil, GeorgeH, Rav, and others have been doing with FP physics (and other BAM updates) forever. As we all know he isn’t exactly “involved” with others in the community…and never seems to ever respond to any messages.

    Well he finally seems to come out of his corner of the world and take a peek at what those guys have been doing:

     

    “I’ve uploaded a quick demo of my current WIP – RoboCop. I added George’s flipper code and the results are extremely impressive. A very noticeable difference but at a cost of flipper bounce, which I hope he can fix.”

     

    I myself have tried it on  few tables, and its definitely much better….and Gimil has recently told me that the flipper bounce also can be fixed and adjusted.

     

    So maybe I need to change the title of this Topic now. :)

    #105406
     randr 
    Keymaster
    ModeratorMember

    Looks to be less floaty that’s for sure. I wish them luck with it. Thanks terry for the news.

    ********************************************************
    Messing with the VPinball app and push notifications.
    So if you haven't downloaded app yet what are you waiting for!?
    *******************************************************

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