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  • #158533
    Thalamus
    Moderator
    @thalamus
    ContributorMemberModerator

    I don’t know. I believe your right though. Just buy the exciters, and if it doesn’t work, get the usb sound card or a pci. Whatever you prefer.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #158629
    ashleyb
    Participant
    @ashleyb
    Member

    Just implemented SSF on my cab and must say, it’s brilliant!  If you’re considering it, definitely go for it,  adds so much extra realism to the tables, especially ones with well implemented SSF.  Fluppers Diner is a fantastic example, you can feel every bump and bounce especially off of the flippers.  You can even feel the weight of the ball.  Absolutely brilliant addition.

    For anyone thinking of implementing the ‘Rob method’, I purchased 4 x Monacor ar-30 exciters, 2 x lepy 2020a amps and a cheap (£22 on amazon) external 7.1 usb soundcard that I wasn’t expect much from but works perfectly.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/CSL-8-channel-simultaneous-recording-equipment/dp/B01HM5KP5A

    Thanks to all on this forum who provided setup guides and advice.

     

    2 users thanked author for this post.
    #160317
    dondi
    Participant
    @dondi

    In preparation for a cab build I’m setting everything up software- and hardware-wise beforehand. I will have full-blown SSF in the cab. I’ve got most everything set-up, but having a little issue that maybe answered here. I have some test tables already set-up (VPX: AFM & X-Men, Future PB: Jaws and FX3). I have an external USB StarTech 7.1 card with some temp speakers working. Getting mech sounds in PUP and via DOFLinx, etc. I installed, but not yet configured, EQ-APO. I’ve stopped here to ask my questions before going further.

    The problem I am hoping to solve is that in VPX, X-Men is sounding great; ROM music and sounds (and the PUP Pack stuff) are all playing through the correct channels. AFM however is not. No ROM and music through the fronts. It was prior to me installing the drivers and setting-up the 7.1. I currently get mech sounds-only through the fronts for AFM (the latest JP & Angrim SSF version released on Jan 14th). I’ve raised the ROM volume to 30 and I even tried downloading PinSound files (I don’t have Pinsound studio installed) and tried using altsound in the VPinMAME config (setting from 0 to 1 for Alt sound mode–also tried 2 and 3). I’ve read in one of the SSF threads about some ROMs sending audio through the front center speaker (which I do not receive any audio through) if the ROM is sending mono (I think Ginsonic had posted that info).

    What am I missing here… do I need to keep going with EQ-APO, Peace, SSF Impactor, PinSound Studio, etc. I’m not sure how to proceed with dialing-in the audio. Could there be a setting in the Table Script I’m missing? I’ve looked and didn’t see anything blaring for audio.

    EDIT: Was able to fix by downloading an altsound file set (not in spreadsheet). AFM now works.
    EDIT2: Was also able to get Pinsound studio version working with mode 2. Not sure I will use or like this version yet. Would also like to minimize # of processes running as much as possible, so may not invoke Pinsound studio at startup until I decide whether or not to use it.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #175182
    Episode
    Participant
    @episode

    Has anyone tried adjusting sound settings for your device in windows?

    I am using 3 sets of speakers on my mobo audio which is 5.1 so I dont have side speakers but windows provides volume adjustments per channel, I checked my windows 7 cab and it has the same.   I also forced my mic port in realtek audio manager to use center sub until i get another sound card, normally I would only have front and rear on the mobo im using.    So far this is working out ok for me as the only amp I had was a house amp that is powering my sub and center atm.

    Provided pic off my desktop which has the same options, I know I cannot combine channels, but this seems to work fairly well.?

    Attachments:
    #179511
    m3chstaa
    Participant
    @m3chstaa

    I can confirm that this SSF is so freaking amazing, it adds a tactile element to the game. I used Dayton Audio DAEX25 exciters and they do an amazing job even through my 18mm MDF cab. I have two at the front (very close to flipper buttons), two in the middle of the cab (set up as “sides”) and for the front audio I have a good quality 2.1 speaker system with subwoofer. I was going to add another sub for the exciters but there really doesn’t seem to be any need. I can feel the ball rolling around the playfield and the loud drops and thuds are easily felt along with jets, bumpers etc.

    If you want to improve your pinball cab I can’t recommend this highly enough, especially if you don’t want to mess around setting up solenoids etc. (I find the noise of them a little obnoxious!)

    LW

    #183870
    topper-2k
    Participant
    @topper-2k

    Hey everyone! I’m new to SSF and am catching up. As far as sharing a single subwoofer via the “Rob Method,” I just wanted to be sure the info in this post is still the current recommended practice.

    And I’d love a little more info on what’s going on here. Can this be manipulated to adjust how much signal gets sent from the exciters to the sub? Would changing the “Fc 150 Hz” to ” Fc 100 Hz” do the same thing as changing the crossover frequency?

    Just wanted to add some quick notes here about getting bass routing with EqualizerAPO.

    I recommend the PeaceUI add-on to EqualizerAPO as it lets you input commands while still using the GUI for everything else, but these commands can be applied no matter which UI you’re using.

    The correct way to do this depends on whether you’re using a sub shared off of the backglass (front/left) or if you are using the SUB channel.

    For a sub shared on the front channels (a 2.1 system attached to L and R), I turn on the sub channel in the Windows config, and start by copying the exciter sounds to the SUB channel. Then I low-pass it at 150hz. Then in post-mix, I copy it back to the L+R channels:

    Stage: pre-mix

    Copy: SUB=0.25*RL+0.25*RR+0.25*SL+0.25*SR

    Channel: SUB

    Filter 0: ON LP Fc 150 Hz

    Stage: post-mix

    Copy: L=0.50*L+SUB

    Copy: R=0.50*R+SUB

    ** IMPORTANT **

    Turn the SUB channel ON in the windows speaker config even if you’re not using it. This gives us a channel where we can filter the sub-bass before mixing it back with L+R.

    If you are using the actual SUB out, it’s similar but a little different. Now you need to mix the bass from L+R into the SUB as well, but you high-pass the L+R channels in post-mix:

    Stage: pre-mix

    Copy: SUB=0.25*RL+0.25*RR+0.25*SL+0.25*SR+0.15*L+0.15*R

    Channel: SUB

    Filter 0: ON LP Fc 150 Hz

    Stage: post-mix

    Channel: L R

    Filter 0: ON HP Fc 150 Hz

     

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 4 weeks ago by topper-2k.
    #183891
    Thalamus
    Moderator
    @thalamus
    ContributorMemberModerator

    Let me ask you back. Why would this info not apply anymore ? Been ages since I setup ssf myself. I remember struggling understanding this, but, I believe I in the end figured it out. If I didn’t – I don’t really care since my setup sounds great for me. Sound is always, kind of a individual thing. Some listen to their music in MP3 format and are happy doing so. What you should do is to use this as a guide to what can be done, and then tweak it to something you like better, if you’re not happy with the result. This goes for anything in this hobby really.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #183917
    topper-2k
    Participant
    @topper-2k

    Let me ask you back. Why would this info not apply anymore ? Been ages since I setup ssf myself. I remember struggling understanding this, but, I believe I in the end figured it out.

    Well, that post is 2 years old and things tend to change.

    I can’t speak for others, but I think an explanation of how to share a single sub is pretty hard to find. The setup guides mostly seem to stop at installing the hardware.

    There’s A LOT you can do with Equalizer APO and PeaceUI. Consequently, their documentation is difficult to wade through to try and figure out how to do the one thing we seem to need to do to complete our SSF setup (share the sub between table and backglass).

    My system seems to be lacking bass despite applying those commands. In fact I think I lost bass when I applied those commands. Instead of posting “help I lost bass” I’m trying to understand how this is supposed to work, because I suspect I’ve missed something.

    I find there’s surprisingly little discussion/ documentation of this step in the process, when so much else about SSF (and virtual pinball in general) is so thoroughly documented.

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 4 weeks ago by topper-2k.
    #183927
    topper-2k
    Participant
    @topper-2k

    I hope it doesn’t sound like I’m complaining or don’t appreciate the enormous amount of time, expertise, and effort that everyone has put into SSF. It’s absolutely amazing. I just want to make it easier for people coming to it for the first time (including myself) to get it setup and working.

    In that spirit, here are some specific comments/questions particular to sharing a sub via the config mentioned above. These are things I’ve personally struggled with (and am still struggling with). My hope is that we can modify some of the instructions so others won’t struggle to figure this out on their own.

    First a couple comments about the existing documentation.

    • The very first post in this forum says “Bass is shared to this sub and the exciters from all surround channels by using a custom Peace/EqualizerAPO config file.” That made me thing there was a config file somewhere I needed to download. But I couldn’t find one and I don’t think there’s actually a file that we can install. It might be better to edit that and say “Bass is shared to this sub and the exciters from all surround channels by using some custom Peace/EqualizerAPO commands.” And then provide a link to those commands with instructions about where/how to enter them.
    • It looks to me like there’s a setup diagram missing from all the sample setups. “The Rob method” has two variations. One uses a 2.1 amp for the backglass and sub. That’s the one that’s documented. Judging by this post that holds the sub sharing commands, there’s an alternate configuration. It uses a stereo amp for the backglass and the sub output on the 7.1 sound card. I actually would have much preferred this alternate setup had I realized that was possible before purchasing my hardware. If that diagram is in the documentation with the other sample installations, I missed it.

    And some questions.

    • In my Windows setup, to share the sub via the Rob method, do I need to do anything other than enable the sub channel? For example, I’ve seen some mentions of enabling “bass management” but I’m not sure what that is or if it needs to be on for this method to work.
    • In the recommended commands, why isn’t the LFE channel used? I’m just barely understanding the EqualizerAPO and PeaceUI command documentation. If I’m reading it correctly, it looks like there’s a specific LFE channel we can access on our 2.1 amps. Is there a reason the sub channel is copied to the Left and Right channels and not to the LFE channel?
    • In the recommended commands, why is 25% of the exciters and 15% of the LR sound copied to the sub? Would we achieve anything useful by experimenting with those values?

    Update: I think I answered question number 2. In Equalizer APO LFE and SUB are the same thing. https://sourceforge.net/p/equalizerapo/wiki/Configuration%20reference/#channel-since-version-08

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 4 weeks ago by topper-2k.
    #191255
    miguelcerca
    Participant
    @miguelcerca

    Thanks for the reply. I guess Ill go with this for now. Originally I was gonna get the creative 7.1 card found here but when I checked the I/O on it, looks like it doesn’t have a dedicated Side channel out put, but rather a split Side between the rear and sub outputs

    IO

    I imagine that would be a no go for SSF right? Everything I’ve seen so far mentions side and rear out as requirements.

    As a side note I know literally nothing about premium audio so all of this is very new to me.

    I got that same card, was pulling my hair out until i found this:

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.instructables.com%2Fid%2FConnecting-a-Creative-PCIe-Sound-Card-to-71-Speake%2F&psig=AOvVaw2W7y2BSC_zjdLVyfYAzfn9&ust=1594920503994000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCMCglYPkz-oCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAJ

    creative pcie 7.1 pinout

    seems you need 3 channel cables, this way you can have the side outputs from the sound card go to your different amps

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by miguelcerca.
    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #191603
    miguelcerca
    Participant
    @miguelcerca

    Hi all,

    Hopefully someone here can help me out.

    I’ve got my ssf setup using the Rusty method. It was sounding good, then I started playing around with EqualizerAPO and ThumpSSF. Now it sounds even better!

    The problem I’m having though is that anytime something from the side or rear channels fires (flippers, pop-bumpers, etc.), the backglass audio lowers. It’s very subtle, but really annoying…

    I don’t have facebook, so my EqualizerAPO settings are kind of pieced together from different sources. Here they are.

    Anyone else have this issue, were you able to fix it?

    thanks for any help or ideas!

    equalizerAPO settings

    #191656
    topper-2k
    Participant
    @topper-2k

    The problem I’m having though is that anytime something from the side or rear channels fires (flippers, pop-bumpers, etc.), the backglass audio lowers. It’s very subtle, but really annoying…

    I’ve noticed the same thing on a few tables. I notice it more on tables with music soundtracks (like AC/DC).

    I haven’t tried to do anything about yet, but I’m probably going to start by looking at the 12v power supply running my amps. I’m wondering if it’s not providing enough amps. IDK, it’s just a theory.

     

    #192956
    hlshure
    Participant
    @hlshure

    Hey everyone. Can’t thank you guys enough for all the information. I’ve been playing FX3 and just got SSF working with it just yesterday. By the way, I am using my home gaming PC with my monitor rotated vertically for pinball and have created a pinball controller (cardboard prototype) with arcade buttons. For SSF, I have my standard PC desktop speakers and found a couple BT speakers with line in ports which I am using 1 for rear and 1 for side to test SSF before purchasing everything. This all started for me a couple weeks ago and has been so much fun!

    Now I decided to try my hand at VPX as from what I have been reading it seems like it has better SSF implementation than FX3 does, but I’ve just started my reading today so please correct me if I’m wrong. I have gotten everything working on my very first table that I downloaded (Attack from Mars) but have a question. Is it normal to hear the mechanical sounds out of the “backglass” speakers? And if so, is there a way to balance the sound as the music,voice,sfx are so much lower than the bumper sounds or whatever it is that I’m hearing.

    Thanks!

    #192989
    topper-2k
    Participant
    @topper-2k

    Now I decided to try my hand at VPX as from what I have been reading it seems like it has better SSF implementation than FX3 does, but I’ve just started my reading today so please correct me if I’m wrong. I have gotten everything working on my very first table that I downloaded (Attack from Mars) but have a question. Is it normal to hear the mechanical sounds out of the “backglass” speakers? And if so, is there a way to balance the sound as the music,voice,sfx are so much lower than the bumper sounds or whatever it is that I’m hearing.

    Thanks!

    No, that’s not normal. Table sounds should come from the exciters under the table. Some sound effects might come from the backglass along with music, voices, etc. But your table sounds should all be coming from the table. So I think something with your setup isn’t right.

    And yes, SSF in Visual Pinball is several orders of magnitude better than FX3. I got into it the other way, started in VPX and then added FX3. FX3 has some fun tables, but the SSF was disappointing after experiencing VPX. It’s totally worth doing. It’s just nowhere near as good.

     

    2 users thanked author for this post.
    #192990
    topper-2k
    Participant
    @topper-2k

    The problem I’m having though is that anytime something from the side or rear channels fires (flippers, pop-bumpers, etc.), the backglass audio lowers. It’s very subtle, but really annoying…

    I found an answer to this in the SSF Facebook group. It tends to happen when the gain is too high in EQAPO. You want to bring the EQAPO gain down and raise your normal Windows system volume to compensate. You can lower the gain by tweaking all your settings one by one. But in my case adding a preamp stage with a 10-15db cut before everything else did the trick.

     

     

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #192999
    miguelcerca
    Participant
    @miguelcerca

    The problem I’m having though is that anytime something from the side or rear channels fires (flippers, pop-bumpers, etc.), the backglass audio lowers. It’s very subtle, but really annoying…

    I found an answer to this in the SSF Facebook group. It tends to happen when the gain is too high in EQAPO. You want to bring the EQAPO gain down and raise your normal Windows system volume to compensate. You can lower the gain by tweaking all your settings one by one. But in my case adding a preamp stage with a 10-15db cut before everything else did the trick.

    Yeah, I turned off the gain in eqapo and it has been working beautifully!

    Mind posting a screenshot of your eqapo settings?

     

    #193011
    hlshure
    Participant
    @hlshure

    Now I decided to try my hand at VPX as from what I have been reading it seems like it has better SSF implementation than FX3 does, but I’ve just started my reading today so please correct me if I’m wrong. I have gotten everything working on my very first table that I downloaded (Attack from Mars) but have a question. Is it normal to hear the mechanical sounds out of the “backglass” speakers? And if so, is there a way to balance the sound as the music,voice,sfx are so much lower than the bumper sounds or whatever it is that I’m hearing.

    Thanks!

    No, that’s not normal. Table sounds should come from the exciters under the table. Some sound effects might come from the backglass along with music, voices, etc. But your table sounds should all be coming from the table. So I think something with your setup isn’t right.

    And yes, SSF in Visual Pinball is several orders of magnitude better than FX3. I got into it the other way, started in VPX and then added FX3. FX3 has some fun tables, but the SSF was disappointing after experiencing VPX. It’s totally worth doing. It’s just nowhere near as good.

    Thanks for the quick response Topper. I kind of figured it must be something with my setup. I have looked through the settings of both VPX Audio and Windows Audio and everything looks to be right as far as I can tell. I google searched for an answer and I’ve come up with nothing. Do you have any thoughts as to where I might start to fix this?

     

    #193038
    topper-2k
    Participant
    @topper-2k

     

    Thanks for the quick response Topper. I kind of figured it must be something with my setup. I have looked through the settings of both VPX Audio and Windows Audio and everything looks to be right as far as I can tell. I google searched for an answer and I’ve come up with nothing. Do you have any thoughts as to where I might start to fix this?

    Best to start a new support thread either here in vpinball or one of the other forums.

    This welcome thread isn’t the best place for that. Direct message me when you do and I’ll see if I can help you troubleshoot.

     

    • This reply was modified 4 months ago by topper-2k.
    • This reply was modified 4 months ago by topper-2k.
    #193058
    topper-2k
    Participant
    @topper-2k

    The problem I’m having though is that anytime something from the side or rear channels fires (flippers, pop-bumpers, etc.), the backglass audio lowers. It’s very subtle, but really annoying…

    I found an answer to this in the SSF Facebook group. It tends to happen when the gain is too high in EQAPO. You want to bring the EQAPO gain down and raise your normal Windows system volume to compensate. You can lower the gain by tweaking all your settings one by one. But in my case adding a preamp stage with a 10-15db cut before everything else did the trick.

    Yeah, I turned off the gain in eqapo and it has been working beautifully!

    Mind posting a screenshot of your eqapo settings?

    Here you go.

     

    Attachments:
    #198745
    Conehead
    Participant
    @conehead

    Hi all,

    I’ve noticed that the general recommendation seems to be to add 4 exciters (2 placed near the rear and 2 placed near the front).  Along with the 2 speakers on the backglass they add up to 6 speakers, and nobody seems to recommend installing the 7th speaker.

    Am I understanding this correctly, ie. only have 6 speakers plus the sub-woofer, and disregard the 7th speaker meant for the center channel?  Thanks!

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