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  • #140866
     Hannon904 
    Participant

    <p style=”text-align: center;”>Here’s another one selling cabinets with tables</p>
    https://www.ultracustomcabs.com.au/D0169D9E-B4AA-4552-83BE-9BBC2F50EAB2179D2DD1-CE87-4912-A570-AB8DB8DBCC70

    #140870
     Tom 
    Participant
    MemberContributor

    AB9549DC-1964-4078-8892-9B7D0D4494EB

    Chatting with them now

    #140872
     Tom 
    Participant
    MemberContributor

    C960BB38-663D-42F0-9CA8-68EDA5F6FE8C

    #140873
     Tom 
    Participant
    MemberContributor

    0B7FD0B6-121B-4F32-BCA5-B6A7B6802096

    #140874
     Tom 
    Participant
    MemberContributor

    B3D606A4-6AF3-4E9F-B0F6-C6BA8835CBD7

    #140877
     Tom 
    Participant
    MemberContributor

    71B046B5-36AA-4BE8-B22E-1C03A2937FF4

    Looks like they really don’t give a f**k.  Maybe a long ban will encourage members who live by them to take action

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by  Tom.
    #140884
     xenonph 
    Participant
    MemberContributor

    It is not unlicensed software!!!

    It may be free software, but it specifically says not to be included with commercial products.

     

    Here is the actual License that comes with Visual pinball…(You can find this as a text file included in the Visual Pinball folder after installation.)

    Unless otherwise explicitly stated, all code in Visual Pinball is released under
    the following license (derived from the MAME license):

    Copyright Randy Davis and the Visual Pinball team
    All rights reserved.

    Redistribution and use of this code or any derivative works are permitted
    provided that the following conditions are met:

    * Redistributions may not be sold, nor may they be used in a commercial
    product or activity.

    * Redistributions that are modified from the original source must include the
    complete source code, including the source code for all components used by a
    binary built from the modified sources. However, as a special exception, the
    source code distributed need not include anything that is normally distributed
    (in either source or binary form) with the major components (compiler, kernel,
    and so on) of the operating system on which the executable runs, unless that
    component itself accompanies the executable.

    * Redistributions must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of
    conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other
    materials provided with the distribution.

    THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS AND CONTRIBUTORS “AS IS”
    AND ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE
    IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE
    ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE COPYRIGHT OWNER OR CONTRIBUTORS BE
    LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR
    CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF
    SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS
    INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN
    CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE)
    ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE
    POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE.

    This software uses the FreeImage open source image library. See http://freeimage.sourceforge.net for details.
    FreeImage is used under the (GNU GPL or FIPL), version (license version), see http://freeimage.sourceforge.net/freeimage-license.txt for details.
    The contents of this file are subject to the FreeImage Public License Version 1.0 (the “License”); you may not use this file except in compliance with the License.
    Software distributed under the License is distributed on an “AS IS” basis, WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, either express or implied. See the License for the specific language governing rights and limitations under the License.

    It also uses Bass.DLL for loading and playing sound effects and music.
    From the website https://www.un4seen.com/bass.html :
    BASS is free for non-commercial use.
    If you are a non-commercial entity (eg. an individual) and you are not making any money from your product (through sales, advertising, etc),
    then you can use BASS in it for free. Otherwise, one of the following licences will be required (see website for current prices).

     

    I used Bold letters for those who don’t want to read the whole license.

    This is just the license for Visual Pinball program.

    PinMAME is a whole other license, which I am sure excludes commercial usage too.

    I wonder why they would think this is just freeware with no license?

     

     

    #140886
     Tom 
    Participant
    MemberContributor

    Because they don’t care

     

    if you care about Vp go on their website and send a copy of the licensing agreement to them. If you live in Australia call them.  Do this once a day, every day for the next two weeks and see if they care.  Only takes a minute

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by  Tom.
    #140889
     xenonph 
    Participant
    MemberContributor

    Just tried talking to them in their chat, with no replys.

    Capture

    I am in the middle of moving, but will try to do more after I am moved in to new place.

    #140899
     LynnInDenver 
    Participant
    Member

    Because they don’t care

     

    if you care about Vp go on their website and send a copy of the licensing agreement to them. If you live in Australia call them.  Do this once a day, every day for the next two weeks and see if they care.  Only takes a minute

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by  Tom.

    That’s the problem. They see it as being distributed for free, and thus is available to be packaged into their product. There is no argument that gets through that sort of mentality, that “if you don’t want me selling it, then don’t put it out there for free” take everything mentality. And yet, you can also see the laziness come through that, the idea that they don’t have to work at this, the money will just come in.

    At some point the C&Ds will come for him. If he’s lucky. If he’s not, he’s been chosen as one to be made into an example, a lawsuit filed, a demand to basically hand over his lazy business and whatever money he has available.

    Tom, you might want to back away from looking for these guys. It’s like playing whack a mole, every one that you manage to get to stop is only going to leave space for another who sees an easy opportunity. The only thing that killed the bootleg tape sellers at the science fiction conventions was the internet itself, once it took hold there wasn’t a reason to pay them for the “unobtanium” they once lazily put on tapes that you could get if you actually happened to just know somebody. And the only thing that’s going to kill these guys is when they’re forced out by an outside force bigger than any of us.

    And the calling them everyday? At a certain point, that crosses over into harassment, and if it’s enough harassment, the cops can (and will) get involved. We don’t need that sort of bad reputation, especially since they can use it as further justification, in the vein of “I’m keeping these people from having to interact with a toxic community too!” We do not want that. Even if I lived in Australia, I think that’s a line too far to cross and won’t do it. And some who take your suggestion to do it will add in death threats, and harassing their family. No.

    We just have to hope that, if an IP holder finally goes after them enmasse, that they leave us alone.

    A more legitimate way to fight lazy commercial pincab sellers is to get our homebuilt cabs to shows, and talk about making those cabs at shows, and talking about the software and how to get it at shows. Start working to drown out their business with public cries of, “here we are, this is what you can do with this, and you don’t have to pay somebody to collect it, it’s all here, it’s absolutely NOT unobtanium. Some of us will even help you get that lumber into a cab shape.” ScottyWic and STV are already doing that here in Denver, and I’m hoping to have Radiant Silverball ready for next year’s Denver show so that I join them.

    Creator of the first PinupPlayer PostDMD mods for VPX - PostDMD for Masters of the Universe VPX and Jaws VPX.
    Head Proprietor of Pisces Pinball, a VPX table developer.
    Lead Technician of MC Chase Amusements, a private arcade in our home basement.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by  LynnInDenver.
    #140904
     xenonph 
    Participant
    MemberContributor

    “We just have to hope that, if an IP holder finally goes after them enmasse, that they leave us alone.”

    We are not the ones including a software in which the license specifically forbids commercial usage, in a commercially sold product.

    Nobody here makes any money off any of these programs.

    Who do you think the IP will go after?

    There have been many in this community who have taken their home made cabinets to many pinball shows for many years, and that doesn’t seem to have effected those who are still selling cabinets with Visual Pinball program included in the cabinets.

    While this may seem to be a great way to inform the uninformed, it is not new, and obviously doesn’t work at the scope of what is needed.

    Visual Pinball is not to be distributed with any commercial product, and there is no license you can buy that allows it.

    Perhaps contacting the owners of the BASS.dll that is included with the Visual Pinball program, of which their license specifically states that you will need to pay for a license if it is included with a commercial product, would have more teeth? That is revenue that they are being swindled out of. I am sure they would be interested in this.

    Ok back to work moving.

    #140907
     Tom 
    Participant
    MemberContributor

    Ok so if you don’t want to confront these people then why do we waste our time sitting around bitching about them, sitting around talking about what we can do, all I am saying is to do something.  Twice now someone else has brought up someone doing this, the first time I had the guy answering to what he was doing on this website the same day.  The second, Major Frenchy, don’t know if I was the only one that contacted him but a day later we have results.  I am not looking for these people, but it sure looks like we are getting some results.  No one is harassing anyone.  We have a duty to let them know they are wrong?  No threats just facts. What’s wrong with that.  Defend what’s yours.

    And no one is gonna sue these people and no one is gonna get results from a C&D because we don’t have the backing that Gottlieb or Stern has .  Wish it was that easy.

     

    #140911
     xenonph 
    Participant
    MemberContributor

    Just sent this message to Un4seen.com (The maker of the BASS.dll program, that is included with Visual Pinball Installation.)

    Just thought you would like to know that there is a company selling Virtual Pinball cabinets with your BASS.dll included.
    They are also including Visual Pinball program which strictly states that it is not to be included with any commercial product.
    The name of this business that is blatantly breaking these terms of usage is “Ultra Custom Cabs”.
    Here is the website address…
    https://www.ultracustomcabs.com.au/
    They are also including virtual pinball tables made by the Virtual Pinball community, of which they have no right to include in their commercial product. Many from this community have contacted him and explained to him that it plainly states in the license that including this with a commercial product is forbidden.
    Your BASS.dll is included with installation of Visual Pinball program.
    With your license, it says they can buy a license if they want to include it with a commercial product.
    He stated he doesn’t care and as far as he is concerned, it is a free program with no license.
    I hope you can inform him that this is not a tolerable action.
    Thank you for your time, and thank you for making a great program, of which us non commercial users really love!!

    Here is pic right before I hit send message… I blurred out my full name and email address in pic.

    Capture

     

    I then sent another email to them, directing them to Toms post above where it shows him saying that it is all free software and he is going to do what he wants.

    Here is my second message to them…

    I would like invite you to join our pinball forums and check this topic here…
    https://vpinball.com/forums/topic/yet-another-asshole-redistributing-content/page/4/#post-140877
    This is the post where you see them saying this is all freeware and they will do what they want with it.
    We have got others to remove content from commercially sold products, but it would be great if they could hear it from the horses mouth so to speak.

    Thank you for your time.

    Charles.

     

    OK now I am serously getting moved into new place!!

    #140921
     bassgeige 
    Participant

    Thank you very much! The weighting to the respective interests of the majority of the friendly and respectful members does not let any freedom of action to interests of members who do care more for their own interests.

    In E-Sport for example you will also experience an instand ban.

    We are not only responsible for what we do, we are also responsible for what we are not doing!

    As he was stepping over rules he was able to read as a highlighted banner I do have to say that it was mildly spoken a negligently intention of the acquiescence to harm the normal user and lots of authors.

    The existence of the marority interests is for what I stand up for, therefore every single action that was done altogether was for him fair and deserved.

    The remission of sins is a different story. That was absolute no trivial offence to lots of hard working members and their passionate hobby.

    #140923
     Tom 
    Participant
    MemberContributor

    Took the words right out of my mouth ;-)

    #140986
     xenonph 
    Participant
    MemberContributor

    I think we could work together with the makers of the BASS.dll, and help them find people who are not adhering to their license, and in turn this will help get the Visual Pinball program eradicated from commercial usage.

    You can’t install the Visual pinball program without the BASS.dll being part of that installation.

    They probably have more resources to target these offenders, specially when they are the ones being cheated out of money for the licensing of the BASS.dll in commercial products.

    We could point out to the owners of the BASS.dll, all the offenders we find who are using the Visual Pinball program in a commercial product, as it will have the BASS.dll included with Visual Pinball installation.

    This would help them to find people who are illegally using their product, and would help us to get rid of these people stealing our tables and including them in their commercial products.

    Kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

    I am guessing they will pursue these commercial law breakers more vehemently than any of us ever could.

    Just my 2 cents.

    #140993
     LynnInDenver 
    Participant
    Member

    OK, I can see calling them and talking to them once, and then stepping up to calling in Un4seen if they act like free software can’t have any license that prevents them from selling it, or just give the lip service.

    This is, of course, assuming Un4seen sees enough value in smacking down a lazy commercial pincab seller. Although it could be entertaining if said lazy commercial pincab seller tried to keep using VPX without the Bass.dll in place. Of course, there is the risk that Un4seen and the lazy commercial pincab seller could come to a mutual agreement and we still have the same problem, but it’s worth a shot.

    Was bass.dll used in VP9, or is it just VPX?

    Creator of the first PinupPlayer PostDMD mods for VPX - PostDMD for Masters of the Universe VPX and Jaws VPX.
    Head Proprietor of Pisces Pinball, a VPX table developer.
    Lead Technician of MC Chase Amusements, a private arcade in our home basement.

    #141157
     N3roflint 
    Participant
    Member

    Any response from Un4seen?

    .

    #142756
     CastilianFly 
    Participant

    Let me first start off by saying thank you to Randr and everyone else who contributes to this community, all of you deserve only the utmost respect and appreciation for everything you do. I started off in this hobby not knowing a single thing, and my biggest accomplishment using a computer was being able to defragment a hard drive! LOL. Needless to say with the help of some videos (TerryRed,GtxJoe, Randr), and support from the members here, I ended up creating what I consider to be the center piece of my game room. Reading the description, and downloading each file made me feel an appreciation of the hard work that went into making each one. Unfortunately there will always be people with more money than time that don’t care about the process of something being created. This creates a market, and a business opportunity for some people. These people understand that “legally” they are not selling you the tables, roms, etc., they are selling you the shortcut, or selling you the hard drive that just happens to contain all of these files for free. Of course I am not a fan of this process, but I understand why it has been created, and personally feel it will be virtually impossible to stop these types of businesses because once they have the file they can make unlimited copies. They only thing you can possibly do is prevent that particular user from downloading any newer or updated files by either banning them, or charging them for the use of the website (I know you are not a fan of fees Randr, but maybe only for known users that operate a business). The issue with upsetting anyone in this type of hobby is that it could draw unwanted attention.

    #142769
     xenonph 
    Participant
    MemberContributor

    Any response from Un4seen?

    (I received reply the 8th of August.)

    It was letter from Ian Luck saying…

    Hello Charles,

    Thanks for reporting this.

    Best regards,

    Ian

     

    Not sure if any actions were taken against the offender though. I am guessing he was contacted.

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