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  • #194648
    TerryRed
    Moderator
    @terryred
    MemberContributorModerator

    You can never have enough Indy… lol

    …. thanks to BAM’s new FBX model Importer.

    #194668
    BazzaLB
    Participant
    @bazzalb

    LOL, I couldn’t agree more. “You can never have enough Indy”!

     

    Now all you need is to add the flippers to start flipping him back to where he came from :) That looks awesome and ridiculous all at the same time.. Love it!

    #194679
    jbg4208
    Participant
    @jbg4208
    Member

    That’s not weird at all…..

     

    #194686
    Mlager8
    Participant
    @mlager8
    Member

    Fbx import is awesome and a feature I’d love to have in vpx…

    I don’t mean to flare up a vpx vs fp feud but is there a reason you @terryred and ravarcade prefer to put your efforts into developing on top of FP instead of vpx? I know BAM has improved things drastically, but it’s still on top of a code base that I beleive is no longer in development? I know things like real per pixel lighting are not available in vpx but are these not things that could be developed like they were for FP?

    Genuinely not trying to be a dick, asking because both platforms seem to have different strengths and wondering why efforts are not pooled towards one common project.

    #194687
    BrandonLaw
    Participant
    @brandonlaw
    Member

    Dun da dun dunnnn dun da dunnnnnnnnn…

    "Fuck this game. I love it."

    #194688
    Tom
    Participant
    @armyaviation
    MemberContributor

    I have always wondered the same as Matt.  There are so many more tables in VPX, it would seem that it won the king of the hill yet people still put out FP tables.  I love Terry’s Star Wars FP table but prefer everything else VPX.  Hopefully this new evolution brings the best of both worlds

    #194718
    LynnInDenver
    Participant
    @lynnindenver
    Member

    There are three key reasons people still use FP instead of VPX.

    First: It’s what they’re comfortable with. Moving to VPX means changing one’s “workflow” in making tables.

    Second: It’s (much) easier to do original tables vs VPX. FP provides backglass and DMD support internally that VPX requires external software for that’s also harder to use. Part of this is because FP had a specific emphasis on facilitating making original tables, and only original tables.

    Third: There’s been issues with certain site administrators on VPX centered sites in terms of demand of fealty and other things that have left a bad taste in some people’s mouths in terms of using VPX because of it’s ties to that site. There was even a period of time you literally could NOT mention the other VPX sites on that site except in terms like “The Universe” and “that French site” because the actual site names were blocked with a replace script like Pin2DMD is still blocked there today.

    Creator of the first PinupPlayer PostDMD mods for VPX - PostDMD for Masters of the Universe VPX and Jaws VPX.
    Head Proprietor of Pisces Pinball, a VPX table developer.
    Lead Technician of MC Chase Amusements, a private arcade in our home basement.

    #194742
    TerryRed
    Moderator
    @terryred
    MemberContributorModerator

     

    First… lets just say that 95% of the people out there are very out of date with their information (or simply do not understand) in regards to what BAM can do. There have been MANY MANY new updates and features added to BAM in the last years or so (that are very much game changers) to both physics and all the other goodies such as lighting, not to mention amazing things like mini playfields, etc.

    Let’s get the main thing out of the way….

     

    Physics:

    Newer BAM updates allow FP to adjust physics dynamically and via table code on the fly. This has allowed the main issues with the flipper physics to be drastically improved on newer tables that use this. If a table has been built or updated properly, you can get rid of most of the floaty ball and be able to make all your shots (if you are used to playing these tables). That said…. any new tables can still be adjusted for personal preference.

    Is it perfect? No. Is is the same as VPX? No. Does that matter to myself and many many many other people who also play VPX? No. We are very aware of the differences. That doesn’t stop us from loving it.

    That said… does that mean it still can’t be improved upon using new BAM features? Yes it can. Contrary to what many think… VPX didn’t just come out of the box playing great like it does today. There has been a lot of work by table authors over the years (such as the work by nfozzy) to get VPX to play how it does today. Similar methods could also now be applied to FP tables… we just need some really smart physics guys to do it. In fact @shiva has been working on his own excellent updates to FP physics as well which has looked promising.

     

    I won’t go into details about other features…. but frankly other than physics, the glow effect for lights, and native SSF support….  “today” there’s not much else that VPX does better than FP and BAM. I mean that. It’s not some kind of fanboy rant. FP-BAM has better lighting, rendering, audio, music, and thanks to BAM an extremely cool toolset to use to do so many things. The stunning works on VPX like TOTAN could be done in FP-BAM using the same models, and even the same kind of texture swapping, etc (if needed)… only it could actually look better.

     

    Why does ravarcade develop so much for FP via BAM? Because you CAN do all those cool things with FP. With VPX you can’t. It’s that simple. Also…. he’s a dev for VPE for those who don’t know, yet he still is adding new features to BAM (like GIF support and FBX models). that should tell you enough.

    Both FP and VPX are quite frankly “old” software. Some look at FP and all they see is the physics…. others look at VPX and all they see is old static lighting and rendering. With VPE on the horizon they will both “look” old as well in comparison. Once VPE is complete and has a similar toolset to FP-BAM… you better believe I’ll be creating stuff on it!

     

    I don’t think myself, SLAMT1LT, @shiva, ravarcade or anyone else should need to “defend” why FP-BAM today is our tool of choice (in my case, its not the only choice)… and why we put time and effort into it.

     

    Why do guys like SLAMT1LT make his tables for FP-BAM instead of VPX? As I mentioned above… he has no problem with how FP-BAM plays…flaws and and all. Other than physics… for him to convert any of his tables to VPX would NOT be a benefit. It would not look as good…. the music functions on VPX doesn’t compare…. FP has real lighting…. shadowmaps…. normal maps (with real lighting affecting it)… mini playfield tools… VR looks MUCH better on FP (and all tables work in VR)… FP has full backglass / DMD / alpha numeric / EM reel support… and FP is much easier to develop tables on. So bottom line… if he doesn’t care about the physics…. what’s the benefit to him?

     

    For me, it’s similar. I’ve created content on FX3, VPX, and FP-BAM. I know the differences. With FP, I have no issue with the physics… flaws and all. FP-BAM is by far more “fun” to create with for me… and I can do things on there I can’t do on VPX… and I can make the tables l work on look so damn good without needing to be a Blender guru (though if I was, then they would look way better). I can get a much better looking end result easily.

    There are 100’s of fantastic FP tables (many of them original) that you can’t and won’t ever get on VPX. Many of them are older tables that just need to be updated to use newer BAM features. Much easier than doing a VPX conversion…and the end result will look much better on FP-BAM.

     

    With my PinEvent table updates I’m able to do things I can’t do on VPX as well. My personal goal is to update my favorite FP tables to use newer BAM features, and also get a PinEvent update. Anyone who has honestly seen what I have done (and many who play them) can attest to it. These are experiences you can’t and won’t get on VPX. I don’t care what anyone thinks… the stuff I have done with FP is kick ass and friggin cool and fun to play for me and 100’s of other people. That’s what matters in the end.

    I’m not a fanboy of FP. I love FP-BAM, VPX, anf FX3. They each offer something the other doesn’t. In the end the community benefits from all of it. We should embrace that and encourage creative works by anyone on any platform, instead of taking pot shots or starting lame emulator / editor wars.

     

     

    To get back on topic… @Tom , I have been working a BIG “table” update (not PinEvent) to Star Wars DSA Ultimate Pro 1.06 over the last 2 weeks. I’m calling this the “Epic Space Battles” mod. I kid you guys not…. this is like FX3 and FP on steroids. you have NOT seen a table like this. It is friggin cool! (and simply NOT possible on VPX)

     

    – you want X-Wing, Tie Fighter, Millenium Falcon, Turbo Laser Cannon, and Vader’s Tie Fighter… you got it
    – you want space battles… you got it
    – you want ships flying around the table…. you got it
    – you want tie fighter and x-wing laser blasts… you got it
    – you want XWing and Tie Fighter firing at each other… you got it
    – you want exploding ships… you got it
    – you want a turbo laser cannon that fires with animation… you got it
    – you want the Millenium Falcon flying around the table…. you got it.
    – you want Darth Vader on the table reacting to table events… you got it.

     

    …here’s pic of the Dark Lord himself. I’ll have a video showing all this off soon enough. by far the coolest Star Wars table…period (can’t wait to add PinEvent to it).

     

    Star Wars DSA ULTIMATE Pro 1.06 - PinEvent - WIP - Vader New2

     

     

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #194757
    Tom
    Participant
    @armyaviation
    MemberContributor

    Yeah Matt, i dont know what the hell you are thinking, FP is awesome, lol.     I have been so busy building VPX tables that i neglected Popper, now i have popper running, i may go back and give attention to Future pinball.  I guess my only reason was that i have all the tables in VPX, adding another system would  be for a few others.  I would totally do it but you also need a camera for BAM too, right?

    #194761
    TerryRed
    Moderator
    @terryred
    MemberContributorModerator

    Yeah Matt, i dont know what the hell you are thinking, FP is awesome, lol. I have been so busy building VPX tables that i neglected Popper, now i have popper running, i may go back and give attention to Future pinball. I guess my only reason was that i have all the tables in VPX, adding another system would be for a few others. I would totally do it but you also need a camera for BAM too, right?

    …. as I stated in the top of my last response…. most people don’t understand what BAM is used for with FP (and think its only for head tracking) :)  You don’t need a camera just to play FP-BAM tables. :P

    I would recommend getting the latest BAM, then get all of SLAM’s newest Ultimate Pro tables from his site (Blade Runner was just released). While many are based on real tables…. they aren’t the same as the real rom based tables in that they have more modes, better sound, music, videos, etc. Same goes for my PinEvent mods (F-14 Tomcat PinEvent is VERY different than the rom based table in many ways. Jaws U-Pro is a very different game compared to any other versions. SLAM’s Indy Stern U-Pro on FP is much better than the VPX version or the real table in many ways… a completely different game.

    Most people like FP for the tables you don’t get in VPX. So don’t try getting the same rom based tables you already have in VPX that are stellar (TOTAN, Circus Voltaire, Getaway, Monster Bash, etc).

    FP is better known for hi quality original tables like those from Blindmankind or Steve Paradis, etc. As I said though… many of those table are older and are progressively getting updated to use BAM so they look and play much better. It takes time.

    Many people tend to get older tables (in some case 8 to 10 years old) and compare to new VPX tables and think FP is bad,etc. Both systems have stellar and meh tables. Sometimes it comes down to the talent of the author, and not the editor… as well as proper setup of FP and BAM to begin with (which I have a nice new guide and video to help you with).

     

    For up to date info on FP and BAM with links to everything you need as well as tables,etc… and how to properly (and easily)  setup both, go here:

     

    https://vpinball.com/forums/topic/future-pinball-and-bam-mega-guide-by-terryred/

     

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by TerryRed.
    • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by TerryRed.
    #194767
    Tom
    Participant
    @armyaviation
    MemberContributor

    I need to definitely get my FP issues worked out.

    #194781
    Todd
    Participant
    @todd

    Thank god it was a million Indys and not a million snakes! AHHHHHHH!

    #194796
    TerryRed
    Moderator
    @terryred
    MemberContributorModerator

    Thank god it was a million Indys and not a million snakes! AHHHHHHH!

     

    That would be a cool mod though! :)

    #194802
    Mlager8
    Participant
    @mlager8
    Member

    @terryred Thanks for the detailed breakdown, for the record I have all your pinevent tables and all slamt1lts ultimate pro tables so Im definitely not dissing FP, I was only enquiring exactly because the forementioned tables are awesome and it would be amazing to see one of them fully rendered like TOTAN or Flintstones.

    That being said, your are right VPE looks to be a game changer and I’m looking VERY forward to having a fully 3d editor. Unity is a top notch game engine and will bring a well needed update to the tired feeling editors of FP and Vpx.

    #194803
    TerryRed
    Moderator
    @terryred
    MemberContributorModerator

    @terryred Thanks for the detailed breakdown, for the record I have all your pinevent tables and all slamt1lts ultimate pro tables so Im definitely not dissing FP, I was only enquiring exactly because the forementioned tables are awesome and it would be amazing to see one of them fully rendered like TOTAN or Flintstones.

    That being said, your are right VPE looks to be a game changer and I’m looking VERY forward to having a fully 3d editor. Unity is a top notch game engine and will bring a well needed update to the tired feeling editors of FP and Vpx.

    If VPE can have similar tools and feature set (beyond the Unity editor and render engine) that is comparable to FP-BAM, I could see guys like SLAM wanting to embrace it, as that is what he has been waiting for with VP all these years. It has to not only look good… but be easy to develop for beyond the editing of the table itself. If VPE uses C#, then that will be a big adjustment to many people (myself included).

    Everything Rav has been doing with FP and BAM will be very helpful for anything he does with VPE. For all the talented VPX authors that are Blender type gurus their work will shine big time in VPE.

    The difference between FP and VPVR in VR is huge to me… so I can only imagine what VPE will look like.

    #194941
    TerryRed
    Moderator
    @terryred
    MemberContributorModerator

     

    Star Wars: Death Star Assault (Ultimate Pro)

    “EPIC Space Battles” mod!

    I’m glad I can finally show off some of what I’ve been working on the last 2 weeks. This is my crazy mod that changes this awesome table into a Galactic Battleground in Future Pinball. You’ve never seen a Star Wars table like this!

    I think you guys will be blown away.

    – you want X-Wing, Tie Fighter, Millenium Falcon, Turbo Laser Cannon, and Vader’s Tie Fighter… you got it

    – you want space battles… you got it

    – you want ships flying around the table…. you got it

    – you want tie fighter and x-wing laser blasts… you got it

    – you want XWing and Tie Fighter firing at each other… you got it

    – you want exploding ships… you got it

    – you want a turbo laser cannon that fires with animation… you got it

    – you want the Millenium Falcon flying around the table…. you got it.

    – you want Darth Vader on the table reacting to table events… you got it.

    This is using 25 mini playfields so far… its nuts. The Millenium Falcon, Vader and his Tie Fighter are custom models…. the others are “pegs” (to avoid the flares showing through the model problem).

    I’ll have a wip of the table available after some code clean up and testing with the newer BAM features.

    Thanks to @Gimli for help with Darth! … @polygame for nudging the progress of new Importer features… and of course @ravarcade for the amazing updates that allow this to be possible!

    Big thanks to @fuzzel for the usage of his X-Wing, Vader Tie Fighter, and Turbo Laser models!

    Watch until the end for a special treat.

     

    ‘ =========================================================================

    ‘****** TerryRed “Epic Space Battles” mod and updates ******

    ‘- added default hovering animations for the ships

    ‘- added turbo laser animated lighting and lasers

    ‘- added flashers to explosion holograms

    ‘- added flashers to all laser holograms so there will be real lighting following the laser animations across the table

    ‘- adjusted backwall normal map to smooth out space window

    ‘- added option to disable new animated sequences for x-wing, tie fighters, millennium falcon, lasers, explosions, and darth vader

    ‘- added new Darth Vader character animations for many table events

    ‘- added new animated sequence: millenium falcon loops around the table for “SOLO” sequences

    ‘- added new animated sequence: new x-wing and tie fighter fly in and land

    ‘- added new animated sequence: Darth Vader tie fighter fires lasers and destroys x-wing trying to fly away (explodes)

    ‘- added new animated sequence: x-wing fires lasers and destroys tie fighter trying to fly away (explodes)

    ‘- added new animated sequence: x-wing and tie fighter rotating and firing lasers at each other

    ‘- added new turbo cannon animation and lighting when bumpers are hit

    ‘- added bump mapping for x-wing, turbo laser, tie fighter

    ‘- added new BAM custom models (now seen as TGA images in the editor): Darth Vader Tie Fighter, Millennium Falcon, Darth Vader

    ‘- added new model / toys: X-wing, Tie Fighter, Turbo Laser Cannon

    ‘- changed position of X-Wing flasher, Death Star spot-light / flasher, and Level lights to make room for new models

    ‘- updated and added more playfield images for each lightsaber colour (changes were made to only the colour…not the lightsaber image)

    ‘- added additional lightsaber colours (blue, green, purple (corrected), yellow, orange)

    ‘- added option to disable Camera Control prompt

    ‘- updated Camera Control commands to work with new Static Camera view option

    ‘- added new custom static camera option (activated with launch or right flipper, needs camera control enabled)

    ‘- added option to disable HUD DMD and HUD Videos (won’t stop any video that fades in during gameplay)

    ‘- added option to disable lightsaber flasher effect (for seizure sensitive / VR users)

    ‘- added option to adjust brightness of bulbs

    ‘- added option to adjust brightness of flashers

    ‘- added option to adjust brightness of playfield inserts

    ‘- added option to adjust brightness of white lightsaber blades

    ‘-    adjusted angle / size / position of lightsaber holograms for a better view of the glow in all camera views (adjusted mini-playfield to match)

    ‘- added option to disable table script settings for BAM post processing / lighting

    ‘- adjusted BAM post processing / lighting

    ‘ =========================================================================

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #194944
    Todd
    Participant
    @todd

    Unfreakingbelievable! Especially at the end :D

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by Todd. Reason: Too excited to type properly
    #194968
    JR
    Participant
    @jfr1
    Member

    Um, not sure if that ending is just wrong or awesome.  ;)

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by JR.
    #194969
    TerryRed
    Moderator
    @terryred
    MemberContributorModerator

    Um, not sure it that ending is just wrong or awesome. ;)

     

    It’s “optional” :)

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