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  • #43272
    jonch919
    Participant
    @jonch919

    Hi everyone,

    I’ve been meaning to start a cabinet built for years now, and finally I’ve decided to do it. I’d appreciate some feedback and shared experiences before I start.  :good:

    I know what I want software and experience wise, but still in the planning stages regarding hardware. I can’t build a full size cabinet as I live in a small apartment, and my wife would literally kill me if I did.
    Instead I have decided to do a modular desktop/kitchen table build with a ~22-32″ playfield and a small DMD screen. It will be as lightweight and compact as possible so I can easily put it away when it’s time for dinner..  :scratch:
    This means all computer parts will be in one box, and the playfield with controller buttons separate in another box.
    I will use aluminum profiles for the frame and acrylic or aluminum sheets for sides and top. To be able to do nudging I will use some kind of semi-flexible rubber feet.

    I will use a Pinscape controller for nudging, and to connect the buttons. I’d like leaf switch flipper buttons,  but the rest of the buttons will be of a smaller type. I will have some kind of DOF that will fit, not sure what yet.

    What I need to decide now before I start, is what playfield screen I want, and what graphics card I need to match it.

    My thoughts & questions:

    1. First of all I have to decide if I want a 16:9 or a 21:9 playfield. Thoughts?
      1. Will a 21:9 be closer to real pinball tables? Perhaps I can put the DMD at the top? Any software limitations?
      2. Difference between a TV and a computer monitor? I’m guessing the latter is better?
      3. IPS of course.. or would PLS be ok as well? (What panels do they use in TV’s?)
    2. FHD, 2k, 4k? I’d like to have 4k resolution…
      1. But that depends on how expensive gfx-card I need to do 4k? Would a 780 (Ti) be enough? Or maybe a 1060 with 3gb?
      2. Same question for 2k?
    3. Are there any really short flipper buttons with small leaf switches available? All buttons I’ve looked at seem to be made for thick plywood/MDF.

    Other than that I’m good to go!
    Thanks!

     

    Top 3 favorite pinball tables:
    1. Twilight Zone
    2. Attack from Mars
    3. Medieval Madness

    #43289
    Dark
    Moderator
    @dark
    vipMemberContributor

    ‘Monitors’ as opposed to TV’s have better response time and don’t suffer from the same input lag issues that TV’s do.

    3dcreation

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #43292
    BorgDog
    Participant
    @borgdog
    MemberContributorvip

    Here is something I posted in a thread on vpforums about the screen ratios:

    So, 16:9 is a ratio of 1.78 to 1

    for comparison

    • a 70s em is around 2.02 to 1,
    • WPC standard around 2.24 to 1,
    • modern Stern standard 2.07 to 1,
    • Data East standard 2.27 to 1

    now here is where it gets interesting.

    • a Gottlieb system 80 widebody is 1.96 to 1
    • a WPC “superpin” is 1.98 to 1
    • a Stern widebody is 1.88 to 1
    • a WMS system 1-11 widebody is 1.56 to 1
    • Data East widebody 1.98 to 1

    so really the widebody tables are actually much closer to the screen ratio of our monitors than the standard tables, and to get them right the standard tables really should have pretty decent black bars on both sides and most wide bodies smaller black bars.  Now given that we usually put some sort of inclination on them, especially newer tables with ramps and toys and such, the whole thing is somewhat skewed.

    Others do things like creep the apron off the bottom of the screen and scrunch the top arch off the screen as well to get it closer.

    so there is my 2 cents, do with it what you will :)

    *All numbers calculated from VP Dimensions Manager

    The one thing I didn’t have in that particular post is that a 21:9 screen is 2.33:1 ratio, which comes much closer to standard size cab ratios than a 16:9 does, and the table could easily be setup in vp to be the correct proportions with a small black bar at the top of the screen or however you wanted.  If I were to build another mini cab I would probably use one of the LG 29″ or 34″ 21:9 monitors instead of the 16:9 I did in my other one.  They are however much more expensive than 16:9 monitors if that matters.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #43307
    Nemo
    Participant
    @nemo
    Member

    Interesting concept ! I always like those “removable” minipin’s , love to see a buildlog !

    I’m on 4K for some time now and yes it’s gorgeous, don’t know if it will be such an improvement

    on a smaller screensize. For your gpu that 1060 will do just fine, a 780 will struggle.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #43454
    jonch919
    Participant
    @jonch919

    The one thing I didn’t have in that particular post is that a 21:9 screen is 2.33:1 ratio, which comes much closer to standard size cab ratios than a 16:9 does, and the table could easily be setup in vp to be the correct proportions with a small black bar at the top of the screen or however you wanted. If I were to build another mini cab I would probably use one of the LG 29″ or 34″ 21:9 monitors instead of the 16:9 I did in my other one. They are however much more expensive than 16:9 monitors if that matters.

    Interesting figures. I did some sketching, and it seems the 21:9 ratio is perfect for having the DMD at he top of the screen.
    They are more expensive, but at the same time you would only need one screen. Decisions…
    Yes the 4k’sh 21:9 ones are rather expensive unfortunately, but the 2560*1080 panels  are much cheaper. (LG 25″ €200; 29″ €300)
    Still a 24″ 4k 16:9 is only €350 now.

    I’ doing some CAD modelling atm, might post some renders later..  :good:

    Interesting concept ! I always like those “removable” minipin’s , love to see a buildlog ! I’m on 4K for some time now and yes it’s gorgeous, don’t know if it will be such an improvement on a smaller screensize. For your gpu that 1060 will do just fine, a 780 will struggle.

    I have WQHD on my 13.3″ laptop, and could never go back to FHD. But I see your point, perhaps FHD and 4k won’t make that muck of a difference on 25″ish screens within the game. Unfortunately I have no other screens to test with.

    I’ll try to find a 1060 then. Seems the best value among the newer cards.

    Will make some kind of a build log once I get going!

     

    Top 3 favorite pinball tables:
    1. Twilight Zone
    2. Attack from Mars
    3. Medieval Madness

    #43540
    jonch919
    Participant
    @jonch919

    I ordered a Samsung S24F350FHU 24″ FHD 16:9. It was on sale for €110, seemed like a bargain for a good PLS panel.

    I will use another small 9,7″ panel I have as DMD. I’s a QXGA Ipad 3 panel with a 2048*1536 resolution, but I figure I can run it at half that, 1024*768, instead if needed.

    Roughly, what gfx-card do I need to get the best / good enough experience at FHD?
    I will be running TBA, FX2, FP, VPX.
    Options are:

    1. €100 – Geforce 760, 950
    2. €150 – Geforce 960, 1050
    3. €200 – Geforce 1060 (3GB)

    Buttons, Pinscape KL25Z -board, etc have been ordered.
    I went with the Ultimarc GoldLeaf as flipper buttons. They seem like a good choice for a compact build.

    Roughly my build will look something like this:

    render01

     

    Top 3 favorite pinball tables:
    1. Twilight Zone
    2. Attack from Mars
    3. Medieval Madness

    Attachments:
    #43547
    STAT
    Participant
    @stefanaustria
    MemberContributor

    Looks like a Laptop with a second “PF” Screen … never thought about this Idea …

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #43548
    jonch919
    Participant
    @jonch919

    Looks like a Laptop with a second “PF” Screen … never thought about this Idea …

    I suppose it does, kind of.. A 60cm long laptop..  :good:

    Top 3 favorite pinball tables:
    1. Twilight Zone
    2. Attack from Mars
    3. Medieval Madness

    #43550
    BorgDog
    Participant
    @borgdog
    MemberContributorvip

    Hey, that’s pretty cool.  Will the little monitor be easily detachable for storage etc?  Also if you are only running two monitors I would recommend putting the little one in portrait orientation, the backglass and dmd combo will be better proportioned that direction (not so stretched), and em’s  were generally taller than wide as well.

    Graphics card wise for that resolution a lot of people recommend the 750ti for cost/performance.  A 960 or 1050 (even the 950) would both outperform the 750ti so would be good options as well.  The 750ti uses less power/makes less heat than any of those so with your small enclosure may be a better consideration. The trade off of course is always quality, with a better card you can have higher settings, that being said, I am very happy with what I get out of my R7-250E in my mini-cab, which is roughly 1/2 to 2/3 the speed of a 750ti.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #43579
    jonch919
    Participant
    @jonch919

    Hey, that’s pretty cool. Will the little monitor be easily detachable for storage etc? Also if you are only running two monitors I would recommend putting the little one in portrait orientation, the backglass and dmd combo will be better proportioned that direction (not so stretched), and em’s were generally taller than wide as well. Graphics card wise for that resolution a lot of people recommend the 750ti for cost/performance. A 960 or 1050 (even the 950) would both outperform the 750ti so would be good options as well. The 750ti uses less power/makes less heat than any of those so with your small enclosure may be a better consideration. The trade off of course is always quality, with a better card you can have higher settings, that being said, I am very happy with what I get out of my R7-250E in my mini-cab, which is roughly 1/2 to 2/3 the speed of a 750ti.

    Yes the small panel will be removable. I use it today as a second monitor on my laptop, attached to the side of the screen by two clips, in portrait mode.

    I will try both directions. Landscape wold be better as you say, but it will come down to if the DMD look to small or not from 80-100cm away in portrait.

    I’ve started looking at used gfx-cards as alot of 770/80 are popping up for sale when gamers upgrade. Might get one of those.

     

    BTW, thanks for all the tips so far from you all!  :good:

    Top 3 favorite pinball tables:
    1. Twilight Zone
    2. Attack from Mars
    3. Medieval Madness

    #43582
    jonch919
    Participant
    @jonch919

    There seem to be a lot of options on how to configure a second monitor for DMD and animation/backglass functionality. Even how to set up the main monitor
    What is the recommended way to do this?

    I really haven’t read up at all yet on how to use multiple monitors. All I know for know is I’ll be using PinballX… So i guess that is step 1 out of 100 on configuring your pinball cab…  :wacko:

    I can’t remember where, but I have seen someone using a software that you use to configure how programs/tables are shown on screen. It had controls for adjusting exact position, zoom, etc etc.

    Top 3 favorite pinball tables:
    1. Twilight Zone
    2. Attack from Mars
    3. Medieval Madness

    #43586
    Phil Docker
    Participant
    @dock
    Member

    Im doing a 32 inch (main screen) build.  I am putting in a Pin2DMD display – considering missing out the backglass !  Maybe even sink it into one of these tables:

    http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/products/tables/coffee-side-tables/lack-coffee-table-oak-effect-art-80111339/

    #43606
    jonch919
    Participant
    @jonch919

    Im doing a 32 inch (main screen) build. I am putting in a Pin2DMD display – considering missing out the backglass ! Maybe even sink it into one of these tables: http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/products/tables/coffee-side-tables/lack-coffee-table-oak-effect-art-80111339/

    That looks like a nice plan! Are you going to use it as a coffee table or jag for parts?

    The Pin2DMD is a real RGB DMD though?

    Top 3 favorite pinball tables:
    1. Twilight Zone
    2. Attack from Mars
    3. Medieval Madness

Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
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