arkadejohn

[arkadejohn]

Glad that helped.

I do know from time to time the real machine looses track of balls, especially on the harder shots not used as often and contacts get stale, bumping the table helped. I even see a few VP games like that, ball just sitting there on the switch until you nudge it.

I need to look it over closer, trying to recall physical machine, I did notice some relay stuff seemed out of sorts and some awkward flipper moves but I was just enjoying it at the time, not focusing on fine details. I glance over the code 32A did, trying to soak it in a bit and hopefully can help.

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[arkadejohn]

You are correct, I deleted my nvram, no start ball. I was going to send previous nvram that worked, but realized during multi-ball, it seemed short one ball. (I was having too much fun still playing wee hours)

I pressed “b” add ball, then start ball popped out. Let me know if that works for you, if not, I’ll try to help, just not up to speed on wip, still a NB learning.

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[arkadejohn]

Some quirky things but I couldn’t stop, had to play a few games, nice. Never played it without covers, I see more art than usual. Nice job, I will look closer at it later.

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[arkadejohn]

Your PF map/sequence of the AUX looks good.

Controller/AUX terms OK by me, I’m the embedded type. I was just trying to use the schematic terms so easy traced to documentation.

The attached fragment of a schematic should show the path for the relays to the PF.

The LB AUX (controller) for the AUX LAMPS is always powered, always running (sequencing). The 24V passes thru the N.O. Contact of AUX LAMP RELAY “B”. This is what controls the ON/OFF (active or not) LB AUX LAMPS (aka chasers). They can’t stay on long or they will blow out.

The PF AUX board is always powered, always running (sequencing). The 6V is connected to the LEFT CENTER & RIGHT CENTER + #1 TOP-ARROW thru #4 TOP-ARROW. They are always blinking. I thought they went out in TILT but they can’t, the 5V to the AUX Board and the 6VDC Q1-Q6 PF lamps are not switched. Once I fire up table (after fixing grounds) I will tilt it to confirm.

The bottom 4 PF arrows #1 – #4 ARROW-BOTTOM (Q7-Q10) are powered by AUX LAMP RELAY “A” (6V), so they only light during special events on the board to highlight jogging path which leads to upper left ramp.

I will take a quick look at what you uploaded, following up more later when rested. I gotta get familiar with pin code, ok on VB just need to pick up functions and such, there is a lot there. (just found NVOffset, nice, that was bugging me, thumbs-up)

 

Attachments:

1. 

   bb-relay-a-b-isolated.png
   

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[arkadejohn]

There are 2 AUX LAMP DRIVER BOARDS, 1A11 for the PF, 2A11 for the LB,  xA11P1 is a 4 pin but only 2 pins have wires, xA11P2 is a 10 pin, pin numbers match Q numbers for transistors and Count in sequence.

The 3rd driver  board is the TRANSISTOR DRIVER BOARD A16, Q1, 2, 3 all on 1 connector.

Then there are a few discrete transistor on PF and LB, the addition of the new driver board was to cut down the number of discrete parts and consolidate them according to the documentation.

—————————

I can confirm, both LB & PF Aux boards do have not enable to control. Yes there is a terminal on the connector for ENABLE but in the manual, they are labeled (unused) and I checked and there are only 2 wires on the input connector, +5V and Return. There are no wires going to the ENABLE, so they are free running, always cycling (counting).

Any CPU control over the PF & LB are thru the relays, A for PF, B for LB. There are 2 wires to the aux boards input side and 10 wires out of the board. The 24 volts comes from the relays.

Unless there is a splice in the harness, I can’t find any other path, nor can I find anything else in the manual.  I have text somewhere, maybe the Gottlieb training info that states the AUX Lamps are free running as well, just can’t recall where I found that.

I recall during attract mode, the relays for both the PF and the LB would chatter (toggle/alternate) as well as during bony bonus and special events, it was a very “taunting” game. Normally both PF and LB are in use, both are independent of each other.

As far as the  S relay,  there are parallel functions for Sol 1,2,3,5,6 providing alternate functions like Center Ramp Top Left Target / 5 Bank Reset.

I was unsure if implied or is   automatic in code (I am not familiar with the emu yet to know)

S relay = L13  –>  Only Used for Sol 1, 2, 3, 5, 6

Sol3  (ON) + S relay (OFF) =  Skull Flasher ( Topper)

——————–

As far as the PF AUX LAMPS (yes, I checked my wire colors and connector first, fool me once…),

The sequence should be  (#44 bulbs)

Left Center (lower bus, 2 bulbs)

Right Center (upper bus, 2 bulbs)

#1 Arrow-Top – #4 Arrow -Top (un-switched, always powered, 6V DC)

#1 Arrow Bottom thru #4 Arrow-Bottom (switched on when AUX LAMP RELAY A is on, 6V DC)

Using your numbers of PF,  sequence is 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 1, 2, 3, 4 (equates to Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4, Q5, Q6, Q7, Q8, Q9, Q10)

Btw, in the video, it looks like his #2, #3, #4, Arrow-Bottom lights are out. #1 flashes indicating RELAY A is on, so 2, 3, 4 should chase as well

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[arkadejohn]

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millansoft

[arkadejohn]

Brief operational description of the Bone Busters Lightbox lighting, based on schematic against machine.

As best I can determine, sorry if redundant information, unsure amount of detail needed.

UPDATE: I discovered that in a vpinball b2s discussion had the mapping of the lights

https://vpinball.com/VPBdownloads/bone-busters-premier-1989-db2s-for-2-and-3-screen/#bbpress

https://vpinball.com/wp-content/uploads/hm_bbpui/144141/yq8wdz5zh8pz7s9a1je8cyn30c74t3cu.jpg

———————————————————
The lightbox general illumination lights are always on; only interrupted by the TILT RELAY (A3-L1). They are wired with bare bus bar across back of the Lightbox, mostly #44 bulbs (29), a few #455 (4) blinking bulbs to accent a few artwork features (6.3vac)

The AUXILARY LIGHTS (chasers) are #67 bulbs (12v on 24v) set of 10 (20 bulbs) in pairs of 2 (paralleled), lit by AUX DRIVER BOARD, Q1 thru Q10
The AUXILARY LIGHTS are sequenced by a 7490 decade counter clocked by a 555 timer running at about 10.5Hz.
The bulb pairs are driven off a BCD to DEC decoder, so the light pairs have about a 100ms flash every second. The pairs are distributed apart from each other to form a more random flash pattern while sequencing. The only interaction with the CPU is the AUX LAMP RELAY “B” controlling the 24 volt source to the bulbs. The wire colors of my lightbox do not match the schematic.

The AUX LAMP RELAY “B” is controlled by A3-L15 of the 74175 quad D-FF, (buffered by Q16). A1-DS4 clocks the ff, A1-LD1-LD4 is the data of the SOLENOID LAMP CONTROL (port b).

The LIGHT SHOW bulbs are 2 pairs of #67 bulbs, 4 total. A3-SOLENOID7, Q1 drives the upper 2 bulbs, A3-SOLENOID4, Q2 drives the lower 2 bulbs. (12v bulb on 24v, bright but burn out often) (I thought they were shorted somewhere but it was the socket was the hot wire, reversed from normal)
———————————————————

Additional information can be provided, I am familiarizing myself with the table preparing to freshen it up as well as diving into pinmame further.

Attachments:

1. 

   Bone-Busters-mapped.jpg
   

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sheltemke

[arkadejohn]

sure, no problem, least I can do. Just struggling in general getting into all this. Took a while to find the manual, who would have thought it would be on the book shelf (sigh). The electronic versions left out a lot, the real manual is complete. My table model is low 700’s for reference, had a few minor electronics updates listed.

As soon as I get a family break to see how much I can get done.

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makmak

[arkadejohn]

bonebusters solenoids 4, 7, 8

had chance to open bone busters,

as far as I can tell… (matching what you have in code)

q53 on A3 driver board operates the knocker designated as solenoid 8

q55 on A3 driver board, solenoid 4, drives Q2 of the Transistor Driver Board 1A16, operates 2 bulbs, half of “Light Box Insert / Light Box Show”

Q56 on A3 driver board, solenoid 7 drives Q1 of the Transistor Driver Board 1A16, which operates the other 2 bulbs of the “Light Box Insert / Light Box Show”

I couldn’t find the definition of the “Light Box Insert / Light Box Show” but the lights light up the right hand side, white washed-out doorway (portal) on the backglass where the skeletons are coming from.

I rung these out with meter comparing to the manual. i saw no other branches on schematics or in harness.

Not sure if this answers your quest? Guessing it is the 2 sets of bulbs that need set for the light show.

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Scotty VH, sheltemke

[arkadejohn]

hey, first, awesome work on this table as well other stuff.

it really does play very close to real table, yes, i have the table, and yes, i realize it’s done. i saw questions on art such as the green widget, upper right corner, yes it is plain green. i have been weeding thru forum trying to look for un-answered questions since only getting (re) started into this. also, hard to get on virtual system, xyl has the bug again and can’t stop playing (heh)

as far as quarks, i saw a few things but even the real table had odd issues. many times pulling out the glass to dig out the ball. it  really flies on this table. swear the glass would break when the ball hits it.

when i dumped the roms years ago, i was still using a kaypro (z80) and such. (i go back a good bit, i have original dr cpm manuals)

grabbed your code, references to the solenoids, i misplaced the real manual (attic) but have pdf handy.

as mentioned earlier, the table runs, but i minimize use since i need to update the wiring, audio goes nutz while playing. tarnished connectors. planning to refurbish soon.

the machine i have is a latter model without skully, i didn’t know about at the time, i have been looking into adding at some point but challenging acquiring parts ($$$).

i will try to dig into schematic to see where wires go, the table is in the hallway, accessible, i saw the skully connector if related. will try to ring out soon, i see another

(cyclonepf) investigating as well. i grabbed a bunch of info on skully a while back, fairly simple operation, like audio taunts firing.

 

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[arkadejohn]

yes, understood.

i wish to help out, was just venting start-up issues.

the table plays great, just if there is anywhere i can provide art since i have the table.

i noticed a few odd things in play, just happening at high ball speeds so hard to watch.

thanks.

 

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[arkadejohn]

Hi, as far as any updates, I’ve been struggling through setups and tables trying to get a grasp on current setups. The majority of my systems are normally linux with pinball being the only exception.

I cloned my pin machine to a second drive on my laptop (i7 quad) in hope of roughing into the table code. its hard to sit at a pin machine to do code. i doubt a vm would be helpful.

I mostly offered any assistant on table (bb) specific questions to anyone if interested, my wiring on table needs updated, it plays but has bad grounds which need beefed up.

so progress slow for me until i can become more proficient.

my chromebook is near worthless for developement, its a glorified cellphone with a virtual linux.

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[arkadejohn]

ok, so welcome me, I have pm’d Thalamus recently to introduce myself. I thank all those who contributed over the years and have enjoyed the work and effort. My partial vp has been in the attic a few years and just recently blew the dust off and started trimming it. We uncovered our Bone Busters table getting ready for a refresh of rubber and updates, our very old house has been remodeled and there has been a ton of dust to clean off of the toys (grandkids and covid).

I tinkered with vp/fp shortly after doing a bunch of mame & such. I (my wife as a gift to her) own a Bone Busters for about 20 years.  I stumbled across pinmame early on not realizing what it was and where it was going (puzzled look at the dmd’s, then the lightbulb flashed).

I had previously written a 65xx disassembler to run down a crazy “enter your initials” bug that drove me nutz. dumping the roms and going over the code.

anyway, maybe a little late or a little early (at least for me), i am willing to help advance this table if possible since we both still enjoy playing it, it is a fun table, always good at parties, and fast, strong flippers that can hit the glass and jump the rails, which we like, we would never part with it.

My favorite story was telling a bunch of kids at my sons birthday party to bring quarters next time to play (jokingly), only to have a long line at the door the next day with pockets full of quarters, I panicked for a moment, opened the door and said, games are free, and I spent the rest of the day emptying the coin box since they loved feeding quarters even though i could flick the microswitch for them, something about that experience i guess (can I blame them).

I am trying to familiarize myself with setups and tables existing but lack experience in the coding of recent but I am willing to try if I can help.

I have noticed a few quarks in the table compared to the physical table but it does play awesome very much like the real table, I do have a working nudge board to help which it and many other tables require. I definitely have to have the volume up full as on the real table for the looping track, can never get it out of my head, it thumps (requires a few watts of juice, the hallway lights used to dim with the out-dated KT wiring in the house).

Thanks for the previous releases and the current much improved vpx versions of the game. This was an awesome update, love playing it.

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sheltemke, Scotty VH

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