Sound positioning/Mechanical Sounds not right

[Moussounet]

Hi!

If you need some more testers, i would be proud to help you testing your SSF’s inhancement!

Thank you!

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[sebcemoi]

Hi @njk70,

I read the whole thread (thanks @Thalamus for posting it on the FB group ), and it sounds very interesting. I currently have the SSF and am very happy with it, and even though I only have a mini cab with 24″ playfield and think the rear / side fade is actually less pronounced than on a fullsize, I’m also curious to test your modifications.

 

 

• This reply was modified 3 years, 2 months ago by sebcemoi.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 2 months ago by sebcemoi.

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[mcdmofr77]

Hello @njk70

I can try also on my pincab your VPinballXssfrc1.exe and give you the result of tests.

 

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[clintonium]

@njk70 I’m happy to test it out if you’re still looking for feedback.  Just PM if you’re still in need of it.  If not, I’ll happily wait till this gets merged into the main line.

Thanks for contributing

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[actarus]

Same for me. I am eager to test and report results on your changes – whether they come in specific build or through official release.

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[njk70]

Sorry for lack of updates past few days. My cab/computer isn’t up so I can’t get at anything. I should be back up in a day or so. My plan is to test 10.7 some more and determine if it needs any “enhancement” (it doesn’t have the same backbox bleed as 10.6) and get all the fixes to toxie this week.

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studlygoorite, Janos, Thalamus

[Thalamus]

I’ve still have to do more testing. But, for 10.7 – original tables, if the sound is said to be played in the backglass, it is played in my exciters by the flippers. When you have the time, see if you see the same on your end. I would be very surprised if that is only me.

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[njk70]

I sent links to the remaining people who requested to test. Please post feedback. I still don’t have my cab up, but the good news is that I got some buttons wired up now. I think I will pop the monitor back in and bring it back up until my lockdown bar receiver and fire button assembly arrives.

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Janos, sebcemoi

[sebcemoi]

Thanks @njk70 for your interesting research of SSF sound positioning improvement and of course for the link.

I will test but only tomorow because it’s a bit late here in France (11:58 Pm) for sound testings without wakin’ up the whole house, and i’ll post right here my results and feeling about your settings.

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[jarr3]

Thanks @njk70 for the test build.

It worked really good. I cannot not hear the bleed into the backbox in my tests, though the SSF sounds are more distinct with the new setting turned on.

I like it!

/Jarr3

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[sebcemoi]

OK I didn’t have much time to test, but my first impressions are excellent!

I quickly tested with few tables which have to my taste good SSF implementation :

-Knorr’s Cirqus Voltaire.

-Knorr’s World Cup 94.

-Al Lougher’s ACDC Pwr Up mod.

By stopping the exciters amps I was indeed able to note the “leak” of mechanical sounds directed towards the bg speakers, and also that the new mode makes them disappear.
By switching off the BG amp, I also compared the original 7.1 mode with the new one, and the latter really optimizes the feeling of the positioning of the sounds, without looking at the playfield, it let can much more clearly and undoubtedly know exactly from which position comes this or that sound and where the ball is.
It really is a huge improvement!
I still need to do more in-depth tests, with more tables but I already for sure validate that is a really hudge improvement.

 

• This reply was modified 3 years, 2 months ago by sebcemoi.

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Thalamus

[cdnbum88]

I would be willing to give this a test if still needed.

I would love to have sounds and BG be in harmony on every table :) .. not sure if this will get it there, but any improvements are always welcome.

Appreciate you taking your time to improve this great hobby and all its toys.

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[njk70]

My cabinet is kinda back together, enough to return to SSF work anyway. I made some notes on per channel behavior when playing Mars Attacks v3 which I can use to compare with 10.7.

From those notes I tweaked my “formulas” a tad where effects weren’t coming out the way I wanted. I exaggerated the (top/down) fade a bit to compensate for surround sound heavily pushing sound to the rear channels. And I improved the (left/right) pan a bit as I noticed there was a pretty sharp cutover at the midline. The most obvious effect of the latter is that the flipper sounds aren’t as exaggerated left/right distinct. They are clearly louder on their corresponding sides but its not full cutover which makes it a bit more realistic (flippers are rather close together after all). Slingshots are much more distinctively on their corresponding sides than the flippers as one would expect.

All that boils down to there should be fewer sharp cutovers from one speaker to another. It probably would still sound weird on a room surround sound but I think it plays really nice in the cabinet. Crank up the playfield noise! That said if you really really want it nice you’d probably have to balance the sound levels of individual playfield items as you probably wouldn’t want them all super loud.

I think I am going to include the word “SSF” in the description for this option and keep the original form as a few people have indicated they wouldn’t necessarily want to be forced into this change and thats fair in a minor point release.

Tomorrow I will tackle how 10.7 compares to my notes and if its worth creating a similar mode to tweak the settings to be similar to what I made for 10.6. It might be, but the implementation will be easier as the pan/fade controls appear to work as I expect and it wouldn’t require remapping coordinates all over the place just maybe enhancing the effect a bit.

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2 users thanked author for this post.

studlygoorite, sebcemoi

[Janos]

After few gameplays with AFM, TAF and Indy TPA I found that SSF sound are coming more from the correct position on the playfield.

ACDC Luci had some sound bleed between BG and SSF sound, as I hear it’s gone with the modded exe.

But I need more time to test with different tables.

Anyway, thank You njk70 for your work!

• This reply was modified 3 years, 2 months ago by Janos.

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[njk70]

Alright I spent a little more time with 10.7 and while it doesn’t have the same issue with playfield sound bleeding into the backbox speakers it has it’s own problems. Left/Right panning is a lot better (in at least some areas) but the Top/Down fade still heavily favors the rear speakers. So I think it is worth making an enhanced SSF audio mode for 10.7 as well. I made a rough fix for the fade and I am not sure anything needs to be done for the pan. If I want to get a little fancy I might be able to make the fade a little more subtle without losing the positioning feel I gained. The further improvement might be too subtle to notice.

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[Thalamus]

I’m still baffled by the fact that I seems to be the only one that has mentioned serious sound issues from some of the table running 10.7. I fear that it will be my exit point out of this hobby.

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[njk70]

@Thalmus I will look at those issues when I complete this. I don’t really understand what you are “seeing” so will need to be able to focus on that when this is done. Can you find a table other than f-14 as an example? You are not allowed to exit the building.

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[Thalamus]

Seems like I might have deleted the small video of my issues that I had up on google. I’ll make a new one soon. F14 is a very good example in that it is very noisy in 10.6, you can barely hear the rom at all in 10.7. Other tables like TWD, is playing just fine. But, all samples set to backglass is played to my front exciters. Sure, I could always try to find more 10.7 culprits, but, I’m unmotivated to do that since I seems to be the only one complaining.

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[jarr3]

Hi, @njk

what do you think, would it be possible to add a slider instead of a checkbox to allow changing the range (left, right, top, down)? I do not know what parameter you do change, but maybe a more granular setting is needed than just a boolean value?

Of course this might make installing VPX too complicated if you have yet another complicated setting to play with. Just thinking out loud…

• This reply was modified 3 years, 2 months ago by jarr3.

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sebcemoi

[Thalamus]

@njk70 : FYI – posted info in beta thread, https://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=44135&p=470942

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