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Read thru all the posts here, then went to the site. Must say, it is impressive. As a newbie to the hobby (April 2016), it has been a difficult path learning the ropes, and I still have no clue on many things. Having the ability to select everything I want in one spot, in one DL is sweet. Something’s I’m not excited about have been discussed here. First and foremost was the community perspective. Felt weird not seeing the authors posts, community comments and etc.
Anyone try downloading? Weird that the VP files were not named with the revision number for the release.
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Hi, if you go to Profile -> Download Options, you can define how the table files are named. You can either add {release_version} but you could also just replace everything with {original_filename}, in which case it’ll be named like the original file, which usually contains the version number.
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Very cool. Thank you Freezy.
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Freezy, yeah you are right… the two things can go hand in hand. What do you think about “link to discussion thread” being standardized as a field in the table submission form?
Hmm maybe authors would appreciate a way of disabling VPDB comments for a release and display a button that leads to the support thread at their forum instead?
What do you guys think?
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I really like what they’re building.
No SAM is a downer but overall probably a good thing. There’s no need to poke that bear with a one click installer.
As for making things too easy, remember there’s a learning curve. If that site helps newbies get up and running with some content easily, what’s the harm? They’ll get hungry for new tables and that will give them motivation to learn. They might even become contributors.
I was quite worried about the setup complexity when I ordered my VPCab a couple years ago. It just seemed like so much to do, and I already knew what I was doing with VP 8.x and VPM. I remember thinking, now I have to learn Hyperpin? How do I configure the other two monitors? Where does all this media go? Spanned tables? UVP? B2S? How do I configure the input controller? Unless you have a friend who also owns one of these things, it’s downright scary to drop a few grand on something you’re not sure you’re going to be able to set up properly! It’s not even easy to experiment before the thing arrives.
Things are much better than they used to be largely thanks to Tom/PinballX and the all-inclusive VP installer. I think monitor positioning, input configuration, and getting tables into the machine once the software pieces are in place are some of the last remaining “unfriendly” parts of VP life.
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I thought a little more about the SAM issue. This is only an idea so bear with me.
What if VPDB would offer SAM games only to “the community”? And by community I mean anyone who contributed something to the community. It wouldn’t be hard to obtain that status, basically if you have been around for some time and participated in one of the boards you would get that status. But that would mean that the “public” still wouldn’t have access to SAM games. Which is our primary worry, to be honest.
The pros are that VPDB still wouldn’t mass-distribute SAM games and kind of honor the “agreement” if there ever was one. The challenge would be to find a democratic way of attributing that status. I don’t see anyone alone to be given that right, so maybe an invite system would work? Once you’re “community”, you can invite other people to join?
I haven’t thought this entirely through yet, but it might be a base to start with. What do you guys think?
EDIT: Dribbble works in a similar way.
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Personally, I think the SAM “agreement” is as much nonsense as not being able to post links from one site to another or mention certain authors names on certain sites etc… if I had to take a guess I would say that most people would like to see all this stuff die completely and would support a decision makes a step in that direction. My vote would be full SAM support for everyone.
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Is Paul actually going to use or integrate VPDB? I doubt it. For this exact reason, he can’t exclusively control what is put up. The supposed agreement with Stern is antiquated and and the community seems to have moved past such nonsense as it was based on logic that is severely flawed and unjustifiable. That is why you can get SAM tables on every other site. Paul stated he would not host them, and that is fine. He wouldn’t want to look like an ass if he told Stern he wouldn’t and then started to. Bottom line is he can only control what he has control over, not everyone else and it’s not his responsibility to do so.
-Mike
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Is Paul actually going to use or integrate VPDB?
I think that train has left the station. ;)
The SAM discussion is not about what Paul likes or not. As you said, it’s our site, our rules.
I thought a bit more about the “community” idea above and I think it could actually work. I mean at some point SAM will be accessible publicly, but meanwhile this could work well as an intermediate solution. Of course it wouldn’t be nearly as restrictive as Dribbble.
What do you think?
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If it’s not about what Paul likes, I’m pretty sure the overwhelming consensus is going to be for full SAM support. Just my 2 cents.
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Whatever allows yourself to get it in.
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But SAM IS available publicly
You have weird intentions and cloudy explanations.
Punch it!
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What’s cloudy?
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Your reasoning for alienating every single existing forum.
No VPF… sounds like something happened there. No SAM, so you’re turning down much of the traffic on the other sites. Is there money involved and you want to save your bacon? Where’s the money coming from? This was a SAM friendly project when it started, as I recall, so someone has their hand in it and wants a piece of the pie.
Punch it!
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But SAM IS available publicly You have weird intentions and cloudy explanations.
Granted, it has been available to the public ‘unofficially’ for four years with serious repercussions since the time the source was sprung on the community. Those repercussions being the downfall of Stern and the pinball market in general. …wait a minute! That’s not what happened at all, gosh darnit!
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lol well the only thing we lost was destruk
Punch it!
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Your reasoning for alienating every single existing forum. No VPF… sounds like something happened there. No SAM, so you’re turning down much of the traffic on the other sites. Is there money involved and you want to save your bacon? Where’s the money coming from? This was a SAM friendly project when it started, as I recall, so someone has their hand in it and wants a piece of the pie.
Well if you would actually read the stuff I’m posting then it might be less cloudy.
No VPF? You of all people has a problem understanding why there is no collaboration with VPF? Seriously? For the record: It is beyond me how anyone is able to work with a character like Paul. I tried, even publicly, but at some point, it just gets too frustrating. If you’re really so suspicious what “happened” during the public thread is that I PMed him (twice) and what I got in return was one thing: not even a response.
Now to the other accusations:
- How am I “alienating” anyone? Care to elaborate?
- “Turning down much of the traffic on the other sites”? I don’t understand what you’re trying to say. What has traffic on the other sites to do with VPDB?
- I’m not sure where you suspect any money. I’m even more clueless why you would think that this was about any money. Please, tell me, how could VPDB be any more transparent than it already is?
The project was SAM-“friendly” because it was a closed alpha and all data was erased before going public. I explicitly stated at the time that the subject wasn’t yet decided.
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What was the deciding factor in not allowing SAM?
Just because I’ve had disagreements with Paul doesn’t mean I’m disagreeable, it all stems from a desire to understand things which are vague. Which is what I am doing now, with you.
You are posting here about VPDB which is raising awareness of VPDB, that’s the traffic I am referring to. You’re not open to the tables myself and many others have created on this site and VPU and other SAM friendly sites, however you’re actively discussing it here. That’s the alienation I am referring to.
I stopped participating in it when it was clear you no longer had an interest in supporting SAM tables, I think the project is a great idea and have no issues with it, what I have issues with is the potential reasons for not allowing SAM tables that you may have. I am not clear on those reasons and you’ve done nothing assuage my concerns in this thread. I’m not particularly active on VPF so I missed the other thread you refer to.
Punch it!
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Myself, I don’t think I need a debate on the original reasons if there is development to change that policy in some fashion. I don’t understand half measures in this situation when VPU, VPinball, MonsterBashPincab, etc. are open about it, but if that’s what it takes, fine.
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You’re not open to the tables myself and many others have created on this site and VPU and other SAM friendly sites, however you’re actively discussing it here. That’s the alienation I am referring to.
Oh no, then you completely misunderstood my intentions. I’m very open to the tables you and many others here have created. As stated above, I would love to have them at VPDB. Apart from that, even if that wasn’t the case, you think that doesn’t legitimate me pointing out my views here? If that really alienates people, I guess I’m at the wrong place indeed.
But let me again try to explain the intentions behind not allowing SAM.
Basically it boils down to the fact that we all distribute IP that doesn’t belong to us. Farsight pays tens of thousands of dollars for their licenses and we don’t. We can argue okay but it’s kind of “fair use” because it’s our hobby and we don’t make any money out of it and it was the reason for the pinball renaissance and what not, but at the end of the day, if a DCMA takedown notice comes in, it gets uncomfortable, not only for the one receiving it, but for everybody.
So the goal is to mitigate that risk. VPF as by far the biggest board has these SAM rules and they seem to have gotten them under the radar all those years, Gary Stern agreement or not. I don’t know if VPF’s SAM rule was the reason they are still running, but it’s a possibility. Maybe we have all been brainwashed enough by Paul to believe it.
Tom runs a business with GameEx. I hope you can understand that supporting SAM is an additional risk for him too. It might be worth taking, but until that’s decided, you’ll just have to bear with us.
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