This topic contains 14 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  redrooster 6 days, 14 hours ago.

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  • #73938
     RustyCardores 
    Moderator
    MemberModerator

    A build log was requested in the welcome thread so here it is.  Like I did in the pinned welcome thread for SSF configuration, it is easiest to explain in pictures as there really isn’t much to it….

    My cab is using ‘The Rusty Method’ and 3 x 2.1 amps to provide separate sub outputs for all areas of the cab (BG, SSF Front & SSF Rear).  In the cab image you will see that I have an exciter placed in each corner of the cab.  These exciters sit close under the playfield screen and are positioned in from the cab corners a little. (The exciters vibrate the cab sides to produce both sound & feedback, so it’s best to keep them away from the “rigid” corners a little as this will allow more vibe & better sound)

    The above image also shows….

    • The main BG sub that is used for the Backglass audio (voice/music). This is part of a standard computer 2.1 sound set (the speakers being in the BG)
    • The rear SSF 4 inch audio sub (in a shitty box) that provides an audible bass balance to the exciter sounds.
    • The front SSF sub exciter under my custom timber lockdown. While this provides some sound, its main purpose is tactile feel.

    The following images display the two SSF amps and exciter positions around the cab.  Remember, audio exciters are treated exactly the same as speakers in terms of wiring. So it’s a simple matter of screwing the exciter’s vibe plate to the cab side and attaching speaker wires.

    *Please Note:  SSF was formerly ‘Poor Man’s DOF’ (PMD) and was created as a super “budget” feedback system. The amps seen here work well, but should by no means be considered “quality” amps.  You may upgrade your amps as you see fit or as your budget permits.



    For cabs using ‘The Rob Method’ the setup is very similar, however 2.0 amps are used in place of the 2.1 amps seen here.  With “the Rob”, both the SSF lockdown exciter and rear SSF audio sub are NOT required.  All bass gets shared between the exciters and the single BG audio sub and this is achieved by using a Peace/EqualizerAPO config file.  Peace/EqualizerAPO software are free to download and DJRobX is our expert in the creation and management of config files for bass control.

    While ‘The Rob Method’ does not provide the additional 2.1 amp volume controls to the SSF sub side of the things, it does mean that the side exciters receive full bass signal for max vibe, rather than partial bass being directed to the sub outputs of the 2.1 amps in “the Rusty” (which is heavily reliant on the lockdown exciter for tactile feedback).

    Both systems work well and each have their advantages…. which way you go will be dependant on cab design (ie traditional stainless lockdown bars don’t provide a space for an exciter to be mounted), but if you are looking for simplest design with the least parts required, then “The Rob Method” is recommended.

    *Please remember that software and hardware configuration diagrams/images are available in the pinned welcome thread.
    *Additional exciter/amp options will be provided in followup posts to this thread.


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    #73944
     RustyCardores 
    Moderator
    MemberModerator

    Members of our SSF Facebook Group have tried a number of exciter/amp combinations and to date the following have proven to work well….

    Exciters:

    Jaycar 70mm Flat Panel Exciters
    https://www.jaycar.com.au/70mm-flat-panel-exciter-…/p/AS3039

    Dayton Audio DAEX58 – 58mm Flat Panel Exciters
    https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-daex58fp-flat-pa…

    Monacor 16.2790 30W Weatherproof Audio Exciter/Resonator
    https://www.monacor.com/…/weatherp…/low-impedance—-/ar-30/

     

    Amps:

    Lepy 838 2.1 Mini-Amp (aka Lepai LP-838 Super Base, aka Lvpin)
    * Works well for exciters, but you may want to go better quality for backglass voice/music.
    https://www.aliexpress.com and search “lepy 838”

    lepai LP-2020A 2.0 Mini-Amp (no sub channel)
    * 2.0 amps are suitable for use with Rob’s “shared sub” configuration. (see pinned post for install diagrams)
    http://www.aliexpress.com and search “lepy 2020a”

    lepai 168ha 2.1 Mini-Amp
    * More power than the 838 and has both sub volume and X-over control.
    https://www.parts-express.com/lepai-lp-168ha-21-2x40w-mini-amplifier-1x68w-sub-output–310-308

     

    One of our group members Peter Docter found these 2.1 amps without casing and they lend themselves very well to neat crossbar mounting. (2.0 amps without casing for use with ‘The Rob Method’ can also be found)

     

     


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    #73957
     Thalamus 
    Participant
    ContributorMember

    Thank you for sharing this Rusty. I on the edge of investing since when I changed my nudge from laying in the bottom of my cab to its current location I’ve managed to get rid of the music influencing on the ball(s) … ok … have your laughs ;)

    When I moved them. I can still, get a light nudge if my sensitivity is low ( deadzone ) from the right or left flippers on a zeb’s kit. They where recommended placed near the flippers to give the best possible effect. Sure, I fee them, but, honestly I’m considering toning them down a bit by some thick material to absorb the kicks they give.

    So, adding the stuff you’ve guys done, looks like a frigging nightmare to me. Adding even more things that shake or nudges the cab. Do you enable tilt at all in you cabs ?

    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by  Thalamus.
    #73963
     RustyCardores 
    Moderator
    MemberModerator

    Thank you for sharing this Rusty. I on the edge of investing since when I changed my nudge from laying in the bottom of my cab to its current location I’ve managed to get rid of the music influencing on the ball(s) … ok … have your laughs ;) When I moved them. I can still, get a light nudge if my sensitivity is low ( deadzone ) from the right or left flippers on a zeb’s kit. They where recommended placed near the flippers to give the best possible effect. Sure, I fee them, but, honestly I’m considering toning them down a bit by some thick material to absorb the kicks they give. So, adding the stuff you’ve guys done, looks like a frigging night to me. Adding even more things that shake or nudges the cab. Do you enable tilt at all in you cabs ?

    I am yet to add a decent tilt mechanism to my cab, so at present it’s not an issue for me.  Plenty of other users have SSF running successfully with various tilt systems though and I believe all that was required (if anything) was a tune of the dead zone.

    I would suggest Rob (DJRobX) be the one to help you with this, as Rob not only runs tilt/nudge but he also created the new test table for it and (if my memory serves correct) also implemented some changes to how it works in 10.4


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    #73969
     DJRobX 
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    Thank you for sharing this Rusty. I on the edge of investing since when I changed my nudge from laying in the bottom of my cab to its current location I’ve managed to get rid of the music influencing on the ball(s) … ok … have your laughs ;) When I moved them. I can still, get a light nudge if my sensitivity is low ( deadzone ) from the right or left flippers on a zeb’s kit. They where recommended placed near the flippers to give the best possible effect. Sure, I fee them, but, honestly I’m considering toning them down a bit by some thick material to absorb the kicks they give. So, adding the stuff you’ve guys done, looks like a frigging night to me. Adding even more things that shake or nudges the cab. Do you enable tilt at all in you cabs ?

    They do add some more vibrations, which can affect nudging, but really shouldn’t much.   I get a mild nudge reaction from the “Knocker” noise in Sir Cheddar’s updated nudge test table, but nothing much from the regular table noises.   Unlike real DOF toys you can EQ problem frequencies out, or turn the levels of stuff down if you’re finding some sort of conflict with your nudging.

    The exciters mainly generate tactile feedback close to where the exciter is mounted.   These sorts of vibrations are usually not super low frequency, so it tends not to radiate through the whole cab, nothing like a shaker or a bass subwoofer does.    In fact it works best if you augment the sound coming from these with an audible subwoofer, because they don’t really reproduce low frequencies well.

    I am using the virtual tilt bob and a shaker now with no issue.

     


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    #73979
     TerryRed 
    Moderator
    MemberContributorModerator

    Great stuff guys. I use 12 transducers in my racing simpit, so I can attest to how cool this can be.

    Clearly this was designed with VPX in mind. You are simply using the games mechanical sounds on a 2nd audio card and playing those through the exciters. Simple, and effective. What I wonder is…do you guys have specific non game sounds that you use for SSF that is more ideal for specific kinds of feedback?

    Like…do you have a “Flipper” sound…that doesn’t sound at all like it does in the game, but it gives more of a specific “tone” that gives a much better “thud”. Same for other actions like bumpers, etc? (in my simpit…it uses telemetry data that translates to your own custom tones, frequencies, etc…not the game audio.)

     

    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by  TerryRed.

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    #73992
     LeChucksBeard 
    Participant

    I have the nudge through the KL25Z and Pinscape software, and a real mechanical tilt bob. The nudge seems affected a little bit by the effects, but I really have not tweaked it much yet. I’ve got my dead zone at 5 right now.


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    #74028
     RustyCardores 
    Moderator
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    You are simply using the games mechanical sounds on a 2nd audio card and playing those through the exciters. Simple, and effective. What I wonder is…do you guys have specific non game sounds that you use for SSF that is more ideal for specific kinds of feedback? Like…do you have a “Flipper” sound…that doesn’t sound at all like it does in the game, but it gives more of a specific “tone”

    We are now using the one 7.1 sound card for all VPX sound (table effects and backglass) as this allows accurate surround sound positioning of the sounds on the table.

     

    Generally no we are not using specific sounds, as the existing table sounds are good and keep the table character. That said, it is super easy to swap out a sound if you wish. But keep in mind a flipper should still sound like a flipper… it’s not about the feedback alone.

    Rob and one of our group members have been looking at adding subaudible  tones to existing sounds to boost tactile feel. This looks like an interesting development but I will leave Rob to fill you in.

    On a similar tack, I have used a subaudible 30hz tone as a shaker in some tables and it works really well with my lockdown exciter.


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    #74308
     DJRobX 
    Moderator
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    Like…do you have a “Flipper” sound…that doesn’t sound at all like it does in the game, but it gives more of a specific “tone” that gives a much better “thud”.

    Currently we are mostly using the commonly shared sounds.    Some are better than others, and sometimes in our SSF mods, we swap sounds out.

    Kai Cherry over on FB has gotten good results from using low frequency synthesis to augment inaudible low frequency sounds.  This provides more feel from the exciters without necessarily changing the way the sample sounds.

    I definitely think that it would be a good idea to spend some time looking at the sound library and maybe creating a collection of SSF-recomended/enhanced sound samples for table authors to use.


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    #74788
     TerryRed 
    Moderator
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    It’s great that you are able to use a single 7.1 card for everything….but is that an option?

    I ask because many people have other systems on their cabinet beside VPX, and having the exciters use the same default audio card may mean that ALL audio will start passing through the exciters. Yes i know that using 7.1 may mean that game audio may not pass through the same channels you are using…but there is not way to control that on the other systems.

    #74802
     RustyCardores 
    Moderator
    MemberModerator

    It’s great that you are able to use a single 7.1 card for everything….but is that an option? I ask because many people have other systems on their cabinet beside VPX, and having the exciters use the same default audio card may mean that ALL audio will start passing through the exciters. Yes i know that using 7.1 may mean that game audio may not pass through the same channels you are using…but there is not way to control that on the other systems.

    I have mame and a jukebox running and they default to the backglass speakers as normal…. so does everything else that is not specifically configured for 7.1

     

    #77904
     fjser 
    Participant
    #77905
     randr 
    Keymaster
    ModeratorMember

    I don’t use sff but they look cool 😎 Someone will tell you if they are Good for cab or not I’m sure.

    We need a POP front end signature!!! Or no?

    #77907
     RustyCardores 
    Moderator
    MemberModerator

    any thoughts on these exciters ? https://www.amazon.com/Dayton-Audio-DAEX25-Sound-Exciters/dp/B001EYEM8C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1519613432&sr=8-1&keywords=exciter+speaker

    Too small and adhesive mounted. The ones we recommend in the SSF Facebook group are …..

    Jaycar 70mm Flat Panel Exciters
    https://www.jaycar.com.au/70mm-flat-panel-exciter-…/p/AS3039

    Dayton Audio DAEX58 – 58mm Flat Panel Exciters
    https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-daex58fp-flat-pa…

    Monacor 16.2790 30W Weatherproof Audio Exciter/Resonator
    https://www.monacor.com/…/weatherp…/low-impedance—-/ar-30/

     


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    #91262
     redrooster 
    Participant

    I think i’m going to give this Rob method a go.  Cheap enough that if it doesn’t work out, i’m not out that much.  Going to pick up the Lepy 2020 amps and 58mm exciters on Amazon and see how it goes.


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